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Was Bruce Faulconer's OST really all that bad?
Topic Started: Apr 9 2018, 10:10 PM (2,060 Views)
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...

Note also that so the original ost was meant to be a part of the series itself . Replacing for example a well composed music part of an old movie. Which was meant to be uplift the scene just because noone listens to that kind of music or it is aged doesnt justify that


I mean there is a thing to enchance the bitrate of an old music or at least they should have tried that. Replacing the original took a part away which was intented not to be seperated. At least thats my opinion

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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
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Formerly known as daman

To me a lot of Kikuchi's music is really memorable and recognisable. When Gohan gets saved in the movies by an anonymous hero, they would play Piccolo's theme and I'd be ecstatic. The genki dama theme is another memorable one.

Personally, I've never found the Falcouner music to add to the epicness of Z. A lot of it seems goofy and a lot of it seems like it's trying to be "badass" too much, which isn't my thing. I would never listen to it in my spare time either. Jokes aside, I'd rather listen to gabber.

This isn't very fitting, imo

kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw

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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

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Apr 20 2018, 07:25 AM
Note also that so the original ost was meant to be a part of the series itself . Replacing for example a well composed music part of an old movie. Which was meant to be uplift the scene just because noone listens to that kind of music or it is aged doesnt justify that


I mean there is a thing to enchance the bitrate of an old music or at least they should have tried that. Replacing the original took a part away which was intented not to be seperated. At least thats my opinion
Actually yes, its' perfectly justifiable.

You have to remember that Funimation, or whoever was directly in charge, was not tasked with expressing the original structure of the series. This isn't like someone defacing a Greek Statue which ruins the artistic expression. The job of those in charge is to see how they can make the show "marketable" for their intended audience. It might sound disrespectful, but those in charge don't care about expressing the original intention of the work, they care about making money.

It's a risk move but its one as a business practice that I perfectly understand and luckily for Funimation, it worked. The "Faulconer" soundtrack was extremely popular for the American audience and I dare say was one of the key features that made the series so popular in the USA as well. This change of the original material isn't new either and these changes can,again,either be successful or failures.

The 2017 movie "It" moved the original timeline from the late 1950s to the late 1980s and despite making quite a few changes to the the story and plot structure, is still considered to be a good movie. There are people out there who complain about the changes the movie made too and not being a perfect copy of the book. Yet those complaints don't mean much to a movie that made 600 Million+ dollars on a 35 million dollar budget.

Just to repeat from my last post, people can complain all they want about the changes Funimation did but you can't say it didn't have the intended results.

Edited by EMIYA, Apr 21 2018, 03:35 AM.
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Darker
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The Lord of the Dark

Ssj3vegito96
Apr 20 2018, 05:28 AM
"Really all that bad?" You make it seem like it has a bad reputation. Faulconer was f***ing awesome and made dbz even more iconic
...Did it?

The US was like, the only country that got the soundtrack change. And here we are, with DBZ still remaining iconic and popular throughout the globe without most countries seeing the need of changing the soundtrack.
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PopcornShower
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^Faulconer fanboys give the Faulconer score WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much credit. The show succeeded internationally with the Kikuchi background music intact. The show got popular in the US in 1998 with the Ron Wasserman score all kids cared about was the action. This masturbatory reverence for Faulconer's music didn't start until Funimation started distancing themselves from it and it become nostalgia.
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DBZAOTA482
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I only really the character themes from Faulconer's OST unlike the original Japanese soundtrack where every single track is ace. The background music is forgettable at best.
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PopcornShower
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EMIYA
Apr 20 2018, 06:33 AM
Also, to people saying that its a crime to replace the original music, as its already been noted, they didn't have much of a choice. The original sound quality that the Dub got was horrendous. They didn't have much of a choice on that
And this is false. They fully admitted way back in the day the decision to replace the music was so that they could charge royalties with their own soundtrack.

And you know this claim of yours that the decision to replacement the soundtrack was due to sound quality is contradicted by the fact that the Ocean/Pioneer dub of the first 3 movies was able to keep the original soundtrack completely intact.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

PopcornShower
Apr 22 2018, 02:03 AM
EMIYA
Apr 20 2018, 06:33 AM
Also, to people saying that its a crime to replace the original music, as its already been noted, they didn't have much of a choice. The original sound quality that the Dub got was horrendous. They didn't have much of a choice on that
And this is false. They fully admitted way back in the day the decision to replace the music was so that they could charge royalties with their own soundtrack.

And you know this claim of yours that the decision to replacement the soundtrack was due to sound quality is contradicted by the fact that the Ocean/Pioneer dub of the first 3 movies was able to keep the original soundtrack completely intact.
Except its directly state by several sources that the sound quality of the original material was extremely bad. Apparently Toei animation either neglected or outright lost the original sound material since back then,they apparently felt no need to keep it. An act thought to be crazy now and frankly crazy then but who knows what their thinking was back then. Either way we have direct reference to how bad the audio was back then.

So Funimation had two options other than leave things as it was and that clearly was never going to fly.

They could've spent hours, and hours, and hours tweaking, editing and churning out the audio for every single episode. The amount of time, effort and costs that would've been would be outrages.

Instead, it is easier just to replace the music and sound quality as a whole and and market it towards their specific audience. I don't care what the Ocean dub did, because clearly the original quality of the episodes gives were absolute s***.

But hey, if Funimation wants to earn royalties off their own music, that's their choice. They want to market it towards an American Audience, that's what they did and it was one of the many reasons that the show as so successful in America. However, it is very clear how bad the original audio was which has been noted by sources. So regardless, changes of some sort had to be made.
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PopcornShower
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Quote:
 
Steve: Was the replacement of the soundtrack in the first two seasons a Saban decision?

Gen: The replacing of the music, was a FUNimation desicsion. With our own soundtrack, we could charge royalties for every second it's heard.


http://www.animecauldron.com/dbzuncensored2/opinions/genterview.html
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Then let them have their royalties. In fact your "Interview" just adds to the specific point of what Funimation was trying to do, market it towards an American Audience.

Quote:
 
Steve: Speaking of the soundtrack, why did you replace the Japanese opening with "Rock the Dragon?"

Gen: Well, one thing is, it's way too long. There are specific standards out there, and the simple fact is is that it just runs too long. When we chopped it up, it was very hard to get it into a fast paced opening that would catch the target audience's attention. The people we're trying to reach, American children, have a very short attention span. They flip through the channels pretty quick, and if you're show isn't flashy enough, then he's not going to stop and watch it. We felt we had to do something there to catch people's attention, so they'd watch the whole thing (the show), and see how good it is.


Quote:
 
Steve: Is that the same reason the background music was replaced?

Gen: For the most part. In the US, audiences tend to like a more continuous BGM on animated series. It's kind of a rule of thumb to fill in gaps in the action with constant music to pace the action a little better. A big complaint a lot of people had with the Japanese music was that it took too many pauses. We used the judgement of our consultants, to make the show conform better to American music.


Steve: Were you pleased with the way Saban handled the BGM?

Gen: Well, as I said, we were strategically pleased with the replacement, but we had to change the "composer." We were not very pleased with the music for the first two seasons.


They wanted to market it towards a very specific audience. in this case the American Audience. Fukunaga basically admits that they needed to conform to the cultural bias of Americans for the series, not just with music but with voice acting as well.

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Steve: It's interesting to me the way the voices were handled. Some, like Piccolo and Bulma, were kept fairly faithful to the Japanese voices, but some, like Goku and Vegeta, were changed dramatically. Why?

Gen: Well, we had to change Goku's voice because test audiences thought his Japanese voice was wayy to high. They thought he was too...not macho enough. We had to conform to our cultural biases there. What happened with Vegeta was we started running into a problem: audiences couldn't distinguish one male fighting voice from another male fighting voice, and you get so many male fighting voices at one time, so people get confused. So we had to give him a little accent, you know, a way to distinguish him from the others.


In the end, the sound quality of the original material was still terrible. We can hear this on almost every official release given. So in the end, changes to the audio of some measure had to be made. It wasn't just "royalties" that were being addressed but a distinctive change in the perception the American Audience had over other audiences. This perception has perhaps changed in the past decade with the American Audience being much more accepting of different material. But Fukunaga, rather unfortunately, is right that the American Audience perception of things was vastly different and often low on attention.

The audience wanted different music, different voices, different characterization.

Funimation merely conformed to the ideas that they thought would better sale the series.

Also, while it's technically separate from the actual interview, I don't really care about the blatant biased bulls*** of the linked website you gave. It's clear whoever was in charge of that website was as much biased to the original source material that you so claim with the American Audience. But again, that seems to be more an issue with this specific person but its as much of a pain to hear such biased thoughts from the "Purists" as it is to you hearing how much people love the "Faulconer Track."
Edited by EMIYA, Apr 22 2018, 04:16 AM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Ssj3vegito96
Apr 20 2018, 05:28 AM
"Really all that bad?" You make it seem like it has a bad reputation. Faulconer was f***ing awesome and made dbz even more iconic
Double Post, my apologies...

The "Faulconer" music was never bad. It got the overall job done and like many pieces of music, could range from average to quite good when it was actually being distinctive. It's clear that the great changes and best parts of Faulconer's music came from around Season 6-8. This is where he starts putting more distinction in his themes that were often left out earlier. The end result was getting themes that were more easily recognizable.

In fact, I want you to think of all the Faulconer themes you can remember and other than "Ginyu Transformation" which you probably remember more from Cell's death, tell me how many of those themes came before the introduction of Trunks and the latter part of the series? Probably very little right? The themes that fans reminiscent on the most is the work that Faulconer did later.

But above all else, it was music specifically tailored to an American Audience. In fact, this change was done beyond Funimation such as how the Ocean Dub created their own track for the series.

While its understandable that people might miss out on some of the original material, especially the specifically good ones like "Spirit vs Spirit" or "Solid State Scouter", something had to be done. There was no way in hell an American Audience in the 2000s was ever going to accept the shoddy material that was given to Funimation. If there's honestly anyone to blame here, it's Toei for not properly keeping the original sound materials. Maybe back in the 80s and 90s there was a legit reason for it but today its pretty stupid and not a mistake one is easily going to make now.

And if Toei did actually send quality material, than blame the American Audience perception as Funimation is only trying to target their specific audience bias.
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PopcornShower
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EMIYA
Apr 22 2018, 04:04 AM

Also, while it's technically separate from the actual interview, I don't really care about the blatant biased bulls*** of the linked website you gave. It's clear whoever was in charge of that website was as much biased to the original source material that you so claim with the American Audience. But again, that seems to be more an issue with this specific person but its as much of a pain to hear such biased thoughts from the "Purists" as it is to you hearing how much people love the "Faulconer Track."
Yeaaah I don't particularly care for the bias perspective either from the source that reprinted the interview but that's irrelevant to the interview.


Quote:
 
But above all else, it was music specifically tailored to an American Audience. In fact, this change was done beyond Funimation such as how the Ocean Dub created their own track for the series.


Their own track was recycled Megaman and Monster Rancher music.



Quote:
 
There was no way in hell an American Audience in the 2000s was ever going to accept the shoddy material that was given to Funimation. If there's honestly anyone to blame here, it's Toei for not properly keeping the original sound materials.

You keep assisting on that and yet that didn't stop Pioneer from releasing the first 3 movies with the Japanese music intact or literally EVERY OTHER LANGUAGE DUB from using the Japanese score. The poor Japanese mono was not a factor in the Japanese BGM being retained with the English dub audio. If you want to agree with Funimation that they had to replace the music because of the audience fine stop pretending it was a sound quality issue.


Quote:
 

And if Toei did actually send quality material, than blame the American Audience perception as Funimation is only trying to target their specific audience bias.


A bias that they created. Pokemon kept its Japanese music (albeit with some original 4KIDS music to fill in scenes with no music at all) a lot of anime did keep their Japanese music in just fine.





I should probably clarify I'm not against replacement music as long as it sounds good. I liked the Wasserman music and (from what little I've heard) the Nathan Johnson music it's only Faulconer and Menza that produced awful BGM. But Funimation didn't HAVE TO they wanted to.
Edited by PopcornShower, Apr 22 2018, 02:18 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

See, that's just your opinion. A lot of people, specifically an American tailored audience, does like the music. One can't force someone to like a style of music but Faulconer's track still ultimately get down the intention they want from the series. If people don't like "electronic music" then they may simply not like this style of music, but they can't call it bad just because of that.

I could however say that the original score given to us was bad, not Kikuchi's score in and on itself but the fact that we got such a fuzzy, low quality version of it. Changes of some sort had to be made because there's no way they could've tried to promote the series to an American audience with such audio at the time. Some other countries might have been accepting of it, but the USA would never have done that. Americans back then (and now perhaps) are picky little children who got to have it their way.

And you know what? Funimation still includes the original soundtrack in their releases. You can still listen to Kukich's music with the English Dub in their releases of the Orange Box and anything after. The audio at this point probably had been improved, at least last time I checked. So in the end, you have Funimation making specific changes to promote the work but still putting in the original material on the actual releases.
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Mike XL
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I prefer the Japanese soundtrack, but Faulconer did a good job. Plenty of memorable themes.
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Vance
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People actually dislike Faulconer's themes? I guess there exists a segment of the Internet for everything...
"A good fighter knows his mental and physical limitations, but a great fighter will figure his way around them"
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