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| Was Bruce Faulconer's OST really all that bad? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 9 2018, 10:10 PM (2,061 Views) | |
| Darker | Apr 11 2018, 07:07 PM Post #16 |
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The Lord of the Dark
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To me Faulconer's music doesn't really add to the moment like the original score does. It hypes up the moment, sometimes it works other times it falls flat. I can't really feel much emotion when there's no actual instruments and just electronica back and forth. It doesn't really fit, and I've yet to hear a 'sad' theme from Faulconer, whereas the japanese ost has a ton of those. |
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| OmegaMagnusDA | Apr 11 2018, 08:39 PM Post #17 |
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Kaioken Beserker
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A lot of the Japanese ost sounds alike and gets repetitive. It's much easier to stay engaged when Faulconer music is playing. |
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| PopcornShower | Apr 11 2018, 10:07 PM Post #18 |
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The Falcouner music could sound cool and exciting at times? But emotional lolololol no. Even scenes that were suppose to be emotional don't sound like anything. Compare Vegeta's dying at the end of the Freeza arc in the Z dub with the Falcouner music to him dying in Kai with the Yamamoto score. |
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| Dan The Commentator | Apr 12 2018, 03:57 AM Post #19 |
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On it's own, the Faulconer score is pretty middling for me. There are a handful of tracks I like, but the vast majority of the playlist is droning and repetitive. Though there are a few tracks that I'd consider outright bad, and I think most of them are from what I'm calling the "inaction" scenes. However, it fails when taken in its context as a Dragon Ball soundtrack and especially as a dub-only replacement soundtrack. Like Kaboom said before me, I generally find it artistically scummy for localizers to needlessly screw around with key elements of their acquired properties, especially something as tone-affecting as music. But even beyond that, I don't think the Faulconer score really fits with Dragon Ball's zany fantasy kung-fu vibe in general, at least not as much as Kikuchi's music does. Though I'll take Bruce Faulconer's music over Mark Menza's any day of the week, because the GT dub score is an absolute dumpster fire the likes of which are rarely seen. Edited by Dan The Commentator, Apr 15 2018, 03:44 AM.
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| TrunksinSwimmingTrunks | Apr 16 2018, 10:33 PM Post #20 |
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Formerly known as daman
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I always thought it didn't fit the scenes at all, even to the point of ruining them. The best example would be using "badass" music for Goku's original SSJ transformation. The Kikuchi score used music that had until then always been reserved for villains, which really reinforced the idea that Goku, who had always been pure-hearted, was losing his mind. For that Majin Vegeta comparison that Steve posted though, I would say the Falcouner one does fit better. I don't dig whatever treble synthetic sound he was using though, but the general rhythm and melody feels appropriate. |
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| I'll Take This | Apr 19 2018, 09:54 PM Post #21 |
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Bruce made Dub DBZ more amazing then it should. Super OST is good but only maybe like 10 are good ? Bruce has many more then 10 I found to be good |
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| PopcornShower | Apr 19 2018, 11:21 PM Post #22 |
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I'm impressed Bruce found more than 10 different ways to have his phone go off on vibrate |
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| YusukeReborn | Apr 19 2018, 11:43 PM Post #23 |
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Flame me all you want but Faulconer's track felt more DBZ than anything Kikuchi did. While I do agree that certain tracks shouldn't have played over and over again it really added to the show and gave it the intense feel that is lacking from the original version. |
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| EMIYA | Apr 19 2018, 11:46 PM Post #24 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I'd almost guarantee that if you took the Top 5 most well known Faulconer Tracks and the Top 5 most well known Kukichi tracks, even those who don't like Faulconer's tracks would still remember it more. That's because not only does the Faulconer Track have a style but pretty much each piece of music is given a distinctive tone. Also, because subtlety wasn't a thing and every scene in the Dub had music, this meant that a lot more music was introduced. There were over 300 different tracks composed by Faulconer and over 100 of them were directly used in the anime. For every 100 tracks, 10 songs were given specific amounts of concentration, offering distinctive themes that stand out. This might be the alien music of Imperfect Cell Theme or the dangerous childish innocent of Fat Boo's Theme. Overall, this means the memory of the music remains stronger because it tries to be distinctive to certain parts. People will always associate "Imperfect Cell Theme" with Imperfect Cell, not just because of the title but because that song was distinctively used for that character. People will always associate "Perfect Cell Theme with Perfect Cell People will always associate "Hell's Bells" and "Super Saiyan Vegeta" with Vegeta People will always associate "Super Buu's Theme" with Super Boo People will always associate "Ginyu Transformation" ironically despite the name, with Cell's death. People will always associate that "SSJ3 Theme" with the time Goku and Gotenks first used the form. And to even move beyond Faulconer's tracks. People will always associate "A Chilling Elegy" with Kai Freeza. I can promise you that if the US got the original Japanese soundtrack, without any technical issues, while it might be respected, it would never have been as remembered and in a sense, coveted as the Faulconer theme was. The distinction is what made Faulconer's work so popular and it's the same reason themes like "Spirit vs Spirit" and other insert songs in the original Japanese soundtrack are more popular and remembered because they too were distinctive. "Spirit vs Spirit" was used exactly one time and forever, we will always associate that music with Gohan going Super Saiyan 2. Edited by EMIYA, Apr 19 2018, 11:46 PM.
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| PopcornShower | Apr 20 2018, 01:11 AM Post #25 |
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Disagree. I can remember like 2 Faulconer soundtracks.
90 percent of Faulconer's music sounds exactly the same. I can barely tell a difference from one piece to another. Is it 300 tracks or just one reaaaaly long track? The world may never know Edited by PopcornShower, Apr 20 2018, 01:11 AM.
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| EMIYA | Apr 20 2018, 01:55 AM Post #26 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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That sounds like your opinion.
The vast majority of other people would say the exact opposite and that many of Faulconer's tracks have a distinctive tune for unique scenes that stand out far more than anything in Kukichi's soundtrack. Seriously, it's clear to me that some of you just don't like Faulconer's track but unfortunately what you don't like, doesn't dictate for everyone else. There's a reason Faulconer's track to this day is so popular and why it was so popular back then and it's the same reason that the Yamamoto Soundtrack or Insert Songs have always been more popular. They are distinctive. They have something that stands out. There is nothing in Kukichi's soundtrack that stands out. It is the bare basic, orchestral music and even people who prefer it still admit its pretty bland. The same issue, though one may argue not as bad, happens with Dragon Ball Super. Most of the soundtrack, while not bad, certainly lacked any distinction. Some tracks like "Beerus Madness" stood out but for the rest, not much to remember. However, everyone knows "Daze Kaka Kachi Daze" when it was first introduced in the Goku vs Jiren fight and everyone remembers the selective tunes of that song throughout. It stood beyond the rest of the songs and became distinctive. Whether you like it or not, this is exactly what happened with Faulconer's track. In fact, Faulconer seemed to go out of his way to make everything distinctive. Giving each character and moment a unique tune only used for that scene or that specific character. Edited by EMIYA, Apr 20 2018, 02:07 AM.
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| PopcornShower | Apr 20 2018, 02:33 AM Post #27 |
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Hi kettle. I'm pot
There's also a vast majority of people in the DBZ fandom on IGN and Game FAQS and Youtube who said the Funi cast sounded better in Z than in Kai. Doesn't make it correct.
Yeah because people grew up on it. It's a nostalgia thing. Even the Yamamoto score which actually brings some damn emotion to the show gets bashed by Nostalgiaboys just because it doesn't sound like Optimus Prime getting choked out during a night of wild sex with megatron.
I think the Kikuchi score is a tad overrated by fans of the Japanese version but I have never seen fans who prefer it call it bland. Where are you even getting that from? They either love it or they think it sounds (can't use that word and post this message for some reason but derogatory term for a homosexual) Even before I knew what was Japanese music and what wasn't. Dragon Ball's music (the Kikuchi score) stood out more to me than DBZ's (Faulconers) |
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| EMIYA | Apr 20 2018, 04:44 AM Post #28 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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That's actually quite understandable. The Kai Dub is a mixed bag of sorts. While it does have a more "faithful" script and some of the voice actors have improved or are just plainly better, such as Chris Ayers, It also lacks some of the entertainment value from the early series and a few of the actors, don't seem to be able to express themselves like they did before. Sometimes this might be a technical change, but whatever it is, keeps it from being as memorable. For example, I think Dameon Clarke's Cell in Z is vastly superior to his work in Kai. He seems to express more emotion back then and because he wasn't forced to follow a direct script, he got to have some fun. He also sounds far less forced in Z than he does in Kai. Thankfully, I think he did a great job with FighterZ, mostly for the same reason. I'm not sure how faithful the Dub in FighterZ is but it helps that it just seems to differentiate itself from what you might expect the script to be. If someone said "Z" was more faithful, that would be a problem but I don't blame anyone for actually preferring the 'Z' dub in terms of entertainment quality. That is the problem with following too closely to a script. If your scriptisn't good enough, or doesn't stand out enough, than its just typical script and doesn't add any distinction. While it would be good to try to remain faithful, if I had to choose being "faithfulness" and "entertainment" I'd chose the latter. I"d much rather have No. 13 speak in his silly excuse of a Southern accent going: "Kippy Ki yay Goku! Me and the boys are gonna kill yer a**! Here's some scissors, give yerself a 30 dollar hair cut!" Than just having some guy going. "Gero's computer ordered us to kill you...now you're going to die." The latter may technically be more faithful but the former is far more entertaining. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2018, 05:28 AM Post #29 |
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"Really all that bad?" You make it seem like it has a bad reputation. Faulconer was f***ing awesome and made dbz even more iconic |
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| EMIYA | Apr 20 2018, 06:33 AM Post #30 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Also, to people saying that its a crime to replace the original music, as its already been noted, they didn't have much of a choice. The original sound quality that the Dub got was horrendous. They didn't have much of a choice on that matter, as they couldn't exactly play sound quality of such poor nature to an audience in the mid 2000s. Also remember that musical expression changes a lot from the 80s-90s and 2000s. What might have been common place in the past to have long silent moments, was no longer the trend during the present. This isn't just something Funimation did, you'll notice in many newer works that a lot more music is put into the original work, including things like Kai and Super. It was very clear that, especially with being given such hand-me-down material, Funimation had to make distinctive changes for an audience 10-15 years older than the original series. Now had they had good quality material, they'd certainly would've just used it. It takes money to get new music and considering some of the supposed ethical issues that came with Faulconer, I'm sure Funimation would've loved to have to have just used the original soundtrack. However, for argument sake, let's say Funimation didn't have bad quality original works. I want you to imagine that you are an Executive or Producer or whoever, who is tasked with trying to promote this "new series" to your Early 2000 American Audience. Remember, your job is not to express the original intention of the material. If you can that's fine but your real goal is to get viewer's attentions and make money. If you're going to promote something to a certain audience, than you have to be able to recognize what the audience likes and dislikes. What may have worked in Japan in the 1990s is not going to be the same for an American audience in the 2000s. You can't say it didn't work either and the Faulconer music for DBZ became just as iconic as Vegeta's silly one liners. I want you to think of it this way. You can argue that "Avatar" is a bare basic protect the environment film that has been done dozens of time before. There is nothing new that this movie has offered. The only reason people like it is the visuals and beyond that, it's a typical story. You can say that but when James Cameron and the rest are tossing their 2.7 Billion Dollar box office money and whatever problems you might have, kind of fall on deaf ears. Same thing here. You can cry all you want about Faulconer's work but its clear that the changes had the desired effect. Results speak louder than words. Edited by EMIYA, Apr 20 2018, 01:11 PM.
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