Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
78 year old man arrested for self defence
Topic Started: Apr 5 2018, 10:01 AM (387 Views)
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43639183


Since we're always talking about how s*** things are in the US, let us remember places like the UK have our own bulls***.

So guys break in to his house and he stabs one, who later dies...and he's arrested.
How f***ing stupid is that though?

Of course, being arrested doesn't mean he's being charged for any crimes and he might be let off anyway but it's so silly that he even got arrested in the first place.
The reasonable force law makes sense but this should be pretty obvious, if he stabbed the guy like 90 times then of course that's a bit extreme.

What else is a 78 year old man meant to do really? I can't imagine he had the physicality to take them both down and restrain them, this kind of force was clearly his only option in the event that they could have killed him.


If it goes any further than this hopefully locals can raise some money for a good lawyer, what a bunch of nonsense.
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pointer
Member Avatar
...

Well... it was technically not self defense. Accidental murder from self defense might be justifiable if the old man had been actually attacked.

The robbers just broke in. They are not supposed to be killed at sight.

Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pelador
Member Avatar
Crazy Awesome Legend

Yeah Steve, how do you know the man didn't attack them first? Household possessions aren't worth killing for.


Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Pelador
Apr 5 2018, 10:33 AM
Yeah Steve, how do you know the man didn't attack them first? Household possessions aren't worth killing for.
Certainly true but why would you risk being killed yourself?

It's not like they come in with a rulebook and say "We're not going to attack or murder you so just chill out and sign the contract"


There's no way anyone can be expected to keep calm and not fear being attacked, especially not an old man who would most certainly die if he sustained any serious injury.
It's not like it's unreasonable of him to have thought he might be attacked, these people could be anyone and they're already invading with the intention to steal.
Maybe they're a gentle sort of criminal that would pat your dog and give it a treat before stealing your s*** but what guarantee would anyone have in that situation?
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rockman
Member Avatar
hoighty-toighty

In Texas, if a person enters your place of dwelling at any time, lethal force is legal. If an old man does it, the case is barely scrutinized by the judge. Sure the family can sue the old man here if the burglar dies, but that rarely/never wins.
The idea is that the intent of the person breaking and entering is never known or understood at any point during the offense, and should always be treated as an attempt to harm the owner, thus becomes self defense when force is used. The line is blurred in the instances where a person kills a trespasser upon outdoor property. Can sometimes be viewed as just passing through.

I'm not saying I agree with the law here. I'm just making a point of contrast to the UK.
Posted Image

JAke is a copyright of Spazo and Pickle Flavored Fudge Pops inc.
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pelador
Member Avatar
Crazy Awesome Legend

According to the government, a person in England, Wales or Northern Ireland can use "reasonable force" to protect themselves or others if a crime is taking place in their home.

This means that in the "heat of the moment", they can use an object as a weapon or stop an intruder from escaping by, for example, tackling them to the ground.

What constitutes "reasonable force" is not defined by law but if a person did what they "honestly thought was necessary at the time" then there would be "strong evidence" they acted within the law.

But a person could be prosecuted if they carried on attacking an intruder after they are no longer in danger or if they planned to trap someone rather than involve the police.

The Crown Prosecution Service advises its prosecutors to ask if force was necessary and reasonable in the circumstances.

'Over the score'
The guidance also says there is no need for a person to actually be attacked before they may defend themselves.

In Scotland, although some of the terminology is different the principle is basically the same.

"It's about whether you went over the score," said Grazia Robertson, a Scottish criminal lawyer.

"The courts do take into account the heat of the moment and the fear the person may have felt."

The law does not "give householders carte blanche in the degree of force they use against intruders in self-defence" and it was ultimately for a jury to decide if a "householder's action was reasonable".

The law is straightforward but each case has to be judged on its facts, and those facts will often be complex.


Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rockman
Member Avatar
hoighty-toighty

Pelador
Apr 5 2018, 01:36 PM
According to the government, a person in England, Wales or Northern Ireland can use "reasonable force" to protect themselves or others if a crime is taking place in their home.

This means that in the "heat of the moment", they can use an object as a weapon or stop an intruder from escaping by, for example, tackling them to the ground.

What constitutes "reasonable force" is not defined by law but if a person did what they "honestly thought was necessary at the time" then there would be "strong evidence" they acted within the law.

But a person could be prosecuted if they carried on attacking an intruder after they are no longer in danger or if they planned to trap someone rather than involve the police.

The Crown Prosecution Service advises its prosecutors to ask if force was necessary and reasonable in the circumstances.

'Over the score'
The guidance also says there is no need for a person to actually be attacked before they may defend themselves.

In Scotland, although some of the terminology is different the principle is basically the same.

"It's about whether you went over the score," said Grazia Robertson, a Scottish criminal lawyer.

"The courts do take into account the heat of the moment and the fear the person may have felt."

The law does not "give householders carte blanche in the degree of force they use against intruders in self-defence" and it was ultimately for a jury to decide if a "householder's action was reasonable".

The law is straightforward but each case has to be judged on its facts, and those facts will often be complex.
Yeah but... The dude used a knife. Which means that the burglar had to have been within a meter of the old guy in order to get stabbed. Considering old people don't move that fast, it sounds like reasonable force was exerted.
Posted Image

JAke is a copyright of Spazo and Pickle Flavored Fudge Pops inc.
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

And I think so far as we know he only stabbed him once, it's not like he went overboard and mutilated a corpse.

He's lucky he isn't one, there's not much else such an aged gent could do against two guys who were presumably fitter than he is.
His only other option would be to surrender which is trusting that the burglars aren't completely mental and won't freak out that there's a witness who could potentially get them caught.


I don't think many people would take the risk so that they might save the lives of some douchebags that invaded their home and would potentially kill them. You'd have to be a massive coward or an extremely calm and gentle person to go along that route.

I wonder what the criminal record of the person he killed will reveal, assuming they have one.
If they've been in and out of prison and have seriously injured people or worse this case should instantly be thrown in the bin.
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
smoochymucci
Member Avatar
Pocket-Dog

Rockman
Apr 5 2018, 12:59 PM
In Texas, if a person enters your place of dwelling at any time, lethal force is legal. If an old man does it, the case is barely scrutinized by the judge. Sure the family can sue the old man here if the burglar dies, but that rarely/never wins.
The idea is that the intent of the person breaking and entering is never known or understood at any point during the offense, and should always be treated as an attempt to harm the owner, thus becomes self defense when force is used. The line is blurred in the instances where a person kills a trespasser upon outdoor property. Can sometimes be viewed as just passing through.

I'm not saying I agree with the law here. I'm just making a point of contrast to the UK.
This is how it should be.
~Mooch!~

Posted Image
🇺🇸🇮🇱🇦🇺
"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good." — Sowell.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pelador
Member Avatar
Crazy Awesome Legend

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359

All cleared. They obviously decided he had a right to defend himself.


Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Pelador
Apr 6 2018, 06:12 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359

All cleared. They obviously decided he had a right to defend himself.
Good s***.

Madness that it took more than an hour or two, frankly.
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
Member Avatar
Formerly known as daman

Not really, they just aren't naive enough to think they instantly know what happened.
kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw

Make the old spam section viewable plz



Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
« Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Theme Designed by McKee91