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Super Saiyan Full Power Multiplier?
Topic Started: Mar 15 2018, 09:06 PM (2,384 Views)
+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

I figure I'll give a disclaimer here. I'm not a fan of Seth's videos, I'm simply using his video as a springboard for discussion.

With that out of the way, do you think Super Saiyan Full Power has a different multiplier? I've always operated under the assumption that it yielded the same increase, and that Goku's training increased his battle power in general.
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Hebrew Wolfman
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Less than SSJ2 that is 100 times base, I'd say SSJ Full Power is 80 times base.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Super Saiyan 2 is 2 times Super Saiyan, not necessarily 100 times base.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Mar 15 2018, 10:29 PM.
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SuperSaiyanMastaDon
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Super Saiyan = 50x
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = 2x
Super Saiyan 2 = 2.5x
Super Saiyan 3= 2.5x
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = 3x

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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Super Saiyan 2 is 2 times Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan 3 is 4 times Super Saiyan 2.

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+ Kaboom
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Nah, it grants the same amount of power as regular Super Saiyan. It's just totally under control and trained to come naturally so it doesn't waste energy just by being maintained.

The entire conclusion that Goku settled on was that pumping Super Saiyan full of excess power was too much of a disadvantage, so what would be the point if they still did that anyway? The point of FPSS is to do more with less.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Yeah, that's more or less what I assumed. Caulifla also poses a problem for Seth's line of reasoning. Caulifla managed to ascend to Super Saiyan 2 without mastering Super Saiyan, and was about equal to Goku despite that.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Mar 16 2018, 01:04 AM.
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孫悟空

I see no reason why it still wouldn't be x50 from the base form.
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Yeah I never thought it had a bigger multiplier either. I always thought it was the same and that his training from mastering it is what made him stronger
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Dagon
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SuperSaiyanMastaDon
Mar 16 2018, 12:04 AM
Super Saiyan = 50x
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = 2x
Super Saiyan 2 = 2.5x
Super Saiyan 3= 2.5x
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = 3x

I'd like to know by what logic you do that. SSJ3 2.5x SSJ2? Super Saiyan 2 2.5x what, SSJ or Grade 2? Grade 3 is 3x what?

This is what I go by(for now:)

SSJ: 50x
SSJ G2: 80x(1.6x SSJ)
SSJ G3: 150x(3x SSJ)
SSJ2: 100x(2x SSJ)
SSJ3: 400x(4x SSJ2)

BONUS:

SSJG: 4,000x(10x SSJ3, AFTER the god ritual, not FROM the ritual)
SSJB: 200,000x(50x SSJG)
Edited by Dagon, Mar 24 2018, 06:55 AM.
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+ Emmeth
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Some people still go by 50x on initial transformation and 10x once it's mastered, but since I follow a certain philosophy it's always 50x for me.

2xSSJ = SSJ2
4xSSJ2 = SS3
this seems fine to me.
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Notaka
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Nope.

I believe Super Saiyan Full Power, or Mastered Super Saiyan is no different than Super Saiyan, except that the user feels more natural; It has less strain and most importantly rids of that agitated feeling, rendering the user calm and level headed in a fight. So it isn't always about power, There's other factors.

Since everyone posted their multipliers:
MSSJ/SSJ: 50x Base
Grade 2:62.5x Base
Grade 3:75x Base
SSJ2:100x Base
SSJ3:400x Base

If I had to put some of the non canon forms: LSSJ would be more or less SSJ2 Level. So 120x Base works for me.
SSJ4 is huge, too huge. I have it EoGT around 160,000x Base.
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Dagon
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Notaka
Mar 24 2018, 08:51 AM
Nope.

I believe Super Saiyan Full Power, or Mastered Super Saiyan is no different than Super Saiyan, except that the user feels more natural; It has less strain and most importantly rids of that agitated feeling, rendering the user calm and level headed in a fight. So it isn't always about power, There's other factors.

Since everyone posted their multipliers:
MSSJ/SSJ: 50x Base
Grade 2:62.5x Base
Grade 3:75x Base
SSJ2:100x Base
SSJ3:400x Base

If I had to put some of the non canon forms: LSSJ would be more or less SSJ2 Level. So 120x Base works for me.
SSJ4 is huge, too huge. I have it EoGT around 160,000x Base.
Your gap between Grade 2 and SSJ1 is kind of small, considering that initial Semi-Pefect Cell was somewhere close to SSJ1 Vegeta in power, then powered up a notable amount, and was still weaker than SSJ Grade 2 Vegeta.

Then, you have a smaller gap from Grade 2 to Grade 3. Warm-up Perfect Cell tanked a kick from Grade 2 Vegeta, then Trunks became far stronger than that level of Cell, by Cell's own words. To fit all that in, you would have to believe that Cell can tank a kick from Vegeta with a 1.1x gap.

Dragon Ball Super kind of confirms or infers that SSJ Grade 3 has more power level than SSJ2 when Trunks was sparring with Vegeta.
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Notaka
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Dagon
Mar 24 2018, 09:33 AM
Notaka
Mar 24 2018, 08:51 AM
Nope.

I believe Super Saiyan Full Power, or Mastered Super Saiyan is no different than Super Saiyan, except that the user feels more natural; It has less strain and most importantly rids of that agitated feeling, rendering the user calm and level headed in a fight. So it isn't always about power, There's other factors.

Since everyone posted their multipliers:
MSSJ/SSJ: 50x Base
Grade 2:62.5x Base
Grade 3:75x Base
SSJ2:100x Base
SSJ3:400x Base

If I had to put some of the non canon forms: LSSJ would be more or less SSJ2 Level. So 120x Base works for me.
SSJ4 is huge, too huge. I have it EoGT around 160,000x Base.
Your gap between Grade 2 and SSJ1 is kind of small, considering that initial Semi-Pefect Cell was somewhere close to SSJ1 Vegeta in power, then powered up a notable amount, and was still weaker than SSJ Grade 2 Vegeta.

Then, you have a smaller gap from Grade 2 to Grade 3. Warm-up Perfect Cell tanked a kick from Grade 2 Vegeta, then Trunks became far stronger than that level of Cell, by Cell's own words. To fit all that in, you would have to believe that Cell can tank a kick from Vegeta with a 1.1x gap.

Dragon Ball Super kind of confirms or infers that SSJ Grade 3 has more power level than SSJ2 when Trunks was sparring with Vegeta.
There's a 1.25x gap between SSJ and Grade 2, and a 1.2x gap between Grade 3 and Grade 2.

A 1.25x is enough to turn the fight in your favor if the you and your opponent were close in power. Also, I don't believe Cell did power up that much. He's strong enough to be confident on taking SSJ Vegeta, but somewhere during the Power up starts getting worried. I have him barely above SSJ Vegeta.

You make a fair point for Grade 3, though. However, Gaps aren't as consistent as you think they are; Vegeta with a power level of 24,000 was dominating Zarbon, who at the very least has 22,000(Some guide books peg him at 23,000). That's a 1,09x gap between the two of them.

If I had to work with numbers:
SSJ Vegeta:1
Assj Vegeta:1.25
Semi Perfect Cell:0.9
Full Power Semi Perfect Cell:1.1
Assj Trunks:1.2
Perfect Cell:1.4
USSJ Trunks:1.5

The gap between Perfect Cell and Assj Vegeta is larger than the one between Zarbon and Vegeta, and the gap between USSJ trunks and Perfect Cell is small enough to make Trunks the stronger of the two but without making it an easy fight for him.

I might change USSJ from 1.5x SSJ boost to 1.75x Boost, but ASSJ works fine in my numbers.

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Dragon Ball Super kind of confirms or infers that SSJ Grade 3 has more power level than SSJ2 when Trunks was sparring with Vegeta.


When ? I always thought that Grade 3 is like an inferior version of SSJ2. At best, I'd have Grade 3 at the level of SSJ2.
Edited by Notaka, Mar 24 2018, 10:23 AM.
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Mar 24 2018, 10:22 AM
There's a 1.25x gap between SSJ and Grade 2, and a 1.2x gap between Grade 3 and Grade 2.

A 1.25x is enough to turn the fight in your favor if the you and your opponent were close in power. Also, I don't believe Cell did power up that much. He's strong enough to be confident on taking SSJ Vegeta, but somewhere during the Power up starts getting worried. I have him barely above SSJ Vegeta.

You make a fair point for Grade 3, though. However, Gaps aren't as consistent as you think they are; Vegeta with a power level of 24,000 was dominating Zarbon, who at the very least has 22,000(Some guide books peg him at 23,000). That's a 1,09x gap between the two of them.

If I had to work with numbers:
SSJ Vegeta:1
Assj Vegeta:1.25
Semi Perfect Cell:0.9
Full Power Semi Perfect Cell:1.1
Assj Trunks:1.2
Perfect Cell:1.4
USSJ Trunks:1.5

The gap between Perfect Cell and Assj Vegeta is larger than the one between Zarbon and Vegeta, and the gap between USSJ trunks and Perfect Cell is small enough to make Trunks the stronger of the two but without making it an easy fight for him.

I might change USSJ from 1.5x SSJ boost to 1.75x Boost, but ASSJ works fine in my numbers.
This is what I would do with numbers:

SSJ Vegeta:1
Assj Vegeta:1.6
Semi Perfect Cell:1
Full Power Semi Perfect Cell:1.2
Assj Trunks:1.5
Perfect Cell: 2.4
USSJ Trunks: 3

The thing is, Vegeta needs a "stomp gap" over Semi-Cell, and Perfect Cell needs a "tank gap"(a larger gap than the one of Grade 2 Vegeta and Semi-Cell), and Grade 3 trunks needs to be "far stronger"(Cell's own words) than that level of Perfect Cell.

I tried having small gaps like this in a few power level threads, and boy did about 90% of the community get on to me for it. "Grade 2 Vegeta is 80% of suppressed Cell? What a f**king joke. Your power levels are trash."

Notaka
 
When ? I always thought that Grade 3 is like an inferior version of SSJ2. At best, I'd have Grade 3 at the level of SSJ2.


When Trunks was sparring with Blue Vegeta, he starts as SSJ2, then when he sees Vegeta turn Blue and sees how outclassed he is, he powers up to SSJ Grade 3 to trick Vegeta into leaving himself open, making Vegeta think he's trying to make up the difference in power with a flawed transformation. To me this says that Grade 3 has more raw power than SSJ2.
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