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Transgender children
Topic Started: Mar 9 2018, 02:19 AM (3,406 Views)
Ice
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Also, studies show 70% to 80% of children who expressed transgender feelings spontaneoulsy lost them over time.

Source: ://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
Edited by Ice, Mar 9 2018, 09:03 PM.
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Tinny
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Tsuki
Mar 9 2018, 09:00 PM
Also, studies show 70% to 80% of children who expressed transgender feelings spontaneoulsy lost them over time.

Source: ://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
I clicked on the link and I was immediately shown this

Quote:
 
John Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is 'mental Disorder;' Sex Change 'Biologically Impossible'


I will confess, when I read this one line, I got angry. Probably should have read the link instead of copy pasting but all the same I was surprised when I saw the page, and go angry. I got angry because this site just told me that I have a mental disorder merely because I am genderfluid. Now I have decided to take a further look at the site besides this and these are my initial findings...

"L. Brent Bozell: Squashing Free Spech on campus" in the commentary "Clorox Okay with Advertising on Show That Preaches Anti-Christian Bigotry" was on "National."

Further more I find the way this is worded suspicious, while it's likely Dr. McHugh knows what he is doing, specifically this.

Quote:
 
He also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over time, 70%-80% "spontaneously lost those feelings."

So... What's going on with this paragraph anyway? It seems to specifically quote the man at "spontaneously lost those feelings" but no where else? Why not include the whole quote if 70-80% do in fact lose those feelings? Perhaps it's the fact that it called me mentally ill, along with various commentators which seem to be full of stuff like, and I shall quote once again.

"Sex Reassignment Doesn't work" by Ryan T. Anderson, "What you need to know about Trump's Tariffs" by Dan Celia, "Time to ditch OBama-Era 'Clean Water Rule' by Darent Bakst, "Philadelphia Soda Tax Is loSIng its Fizz, and finally "CNN Series on Papacy Debuts this Sunday" by Bill Donohue, the last on in particular blasts CNN from inviting an Anthea Butler who apparently at one point or another called God a "White Racist", and overall shows a dismissal of CNN saying stuff like
Quote:
 
Hopefully, This documentary will be more accurate than 'what the Pope knew'


Basically Tsuki, what I'm saying is... I don't trust this site you've linked me, if you can find the study more directly or by another site, I'll take a closer look at it, but until then this site feels like it has a very particular agenda to me. I mean just look at this
Posted ImagePosted Image
No offense, but I have no reason to believe them as of right now, the way they cite it seems suspicious, they're clearly very rightwing, that web page you linked literally called it a mental disorder, and they literally have a grassroots politic thing fighting against quote "Anti-Christian bigotry in the media" I should add the deeply christian people of this country have historically been slow to accept trans rights. The entire article paints a clear picture as such: Transgenderism is not normal. Dr. McHugh apparently (since my trust is basically at 0 with them, I would not be surprised if this was out of context) says that
Quote:
 
policy makers and the media are doing no facvors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment, and prevention.
The underlinedparts are my emphasis. It's basically saying that trans people aren't real and are confused. Not just children, all transgendered people. And that's me taking them at their word, which I'm not at this point.

I don't trust your source. I'm sorry, but I do not believe that they are giving out the truth, especially all the wierd quotations in wierd places like quoting "assumption" but not "in the person's" that is right before or "that they are different than the physical reality of their body" that is right after, it smells fishy to me and I feel like I'm reading what is at best incompetently written and at worst propaganda or even outright misinformation.


Also I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, this is basically a guess, this looked pretty niche to just find randomly. But is this how you came across the site by chance?
Posted Image
If this is how, or is similar to how (and this is a shot in the dark essentially) I can say this right now. I am genderfluid, basically it means my gender fluctuates from time to time, sometimes I feel like a man, other times like a woman. Essentially, I am transgender, I fit under that same umbrella. I do not have a mental disorder, and I hope in the future that this doesn't impact our interactions with each other.
Edited by Tinny, Mar 9 2018, 10:20 PM.
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Ice
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Tinny
Mar 9 2018, 09:32 PM
Also I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, this is basically a guess, this looked pretty niche to just find randomly. But is this how you came across the site by chance?
Posted Image
If this is how, or is similar to how (and this is a shot in the dark essentially) I can say this right now. I am genderfluid, basically it means my gender fluctuates from time to time, sometimes I feel like a man, other times like a woman. Essentially, I am transgender, I fit under that same umbrella. I do not have a mental disorder, and I hope in the future that this doesn't impact our interactions with each other.
The article was mentioned in this video. (Don't watch it though cuz it will probably make you really mad.)
https://youtu.be/aiBzaN3uuik
Also, i have nothing against trans people
Edited by Ice, Mar 9 2018, 10:57 PM.
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Tinny
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Tsuki
Mar 9 2018, 10:56 PM
Tinny
Mar 9 2018, 09:32 PM
Also I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, this is basically a guess, this looked pretty niche to just find randomly. But is this how you came across the site by chance?
Posted Image
If this is how, or is similar to how (and this is a shot in the dark essentially) I can say this right now. I am genderfluid, basically it means my gender fluctuates from time to time, sometimes I feel like a man, other times like a woman. Essentially, I am transgender, I fit under that same umbrella. I do not have a mental disorder, and I hope in the future that this doesn't impact our interactions with each other.
The article was mentioned in this video. (Don't watch it though cuz it will probably make you really mad.)
https://youtu.be/aiBzaN3uuik
Also, i have nothing against trans people
It's more that I wasn't expecting something calling me mentally ill out the gate, now I have a bit of prep, as for Hunter Avellone guy, I have to say... Well

Posted Image
You can probably see why I'm skeptical of him as well. He is clearly a very right wing kind of person, simply using the language he does, casually referring to the left as "left wing hypocrits" if it's alright with you, I'd like to cite a counterexample to this.



This is contrapoints, she is a very left-wing youtuber who tackles a lot of political conflict, but these two videos I feel are particularly helpful to explaining it. Contrapoints uses a lot of dark and crazy humor, but overall I would say she's. Also skip the first 40 seconds of the What is Gender video if you're sensitive to seizure inducing stuff, the video itself immediately starts with a seizure warning but I figured I should say it here as well. I realize this probalby disagrees with a lot of what you think coming into this, but for that reason I think it'd be rather nice if you did watch and consider them, especially with the consideration that I am genderqueer myself.


Edit: minor critiques on his video mostly

Also regarding the whole "gender is not a social construct" as if social constructs are flimsy I'd like to correct this. Money is also social construct, and I'm sure we're all well aware at how much that can effect our lives. just a minor thing to critique.
Gravity is also a theory, theories are essentially hypothesis that have withstood all attempts to disprove them so far.
He also brings up the slippery slope argument, which is a fallacy.
And he brought up the bathroom idea. I will say that the sex sign at a bathroom will not stop anyone who is planning to rape someone in a public restroom.

To be perfectly honest... It kind of feels like this Hunter guy is putting his feelings over the reality of the situation. I realize that's a bit of a No U argument but the video isn't exactly academic, even compared to Contrapoints' own more wacky videos.
Edited by Tinny, Mar 9 2018, 11:14 PM.
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Ice
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I'll watch them later cuz i have to get ready for work
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Ice
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Tinny
Mar 9 2018, 11:07 PM
Tsuki
Mar 9 2018, 10:56 PM
Tinny
Mar 9 2018, 09:32 PM
Also I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, this is basically a guess, this looked pretty niche to just find randomly. But is this how you came across the site by chance?
Posted Image
If this is how, or is similar to how (and this is a shot in the dark essentially) I can say this right now. I am genderfluid, basically it means my gender fluctuates from time to time, sometimes I feel like a man, other times like a woman. Essentially, I am transgender, I fit under that same umbrella. I do not have a mental disorder, and I hope in the future that this doesn't impact our interactions with each other.
The article was mentioned in this video. (Don't watch it though cuz it will probably make you really mad.)
https://youtu.be/aiBzaN3uuik
Also, i have nothing against trans people
It's more that I wasn't expecting something calling me mentally ill out the gate, now I have a bit of prep, as for Hunter Avellone guy, I have to say... Well

Posted Image
You can probably see why I'm skeptical of him as well. He is clearly a very right wing kind of person, simply using the language he does, casually referring to the left as "left wing hypocrits" if it's alright with you, I'd like to cite a counterexample to this.



This is contrapoints, she is a very left-wing youtuber who tackles a lot of political conflict, but these two videos I feel are particularly helpful to explaining it. Contrapoints uses a lot of dark and crazy humor, but overall I would say she's. Also skip the first 40 seconds of the What is Gender video if you're sensitive to seizure inducing stuff, the video itself immediately starts with a seizure warning but I figured I should say it here as well. I realize this probalby disagrees with a lot of what you think coming into this, but for that reason I think it'd be rather nice if you did watch and consider them, especially with the consideration that I am genderqueer myself.


Edit: minor critiques on his video mostly

Also regarding the whole "gender is not a social construct" as if social constructs are flimsy I'd like to correct this. Money is also social construct, and I'm sure we're all well aware at how much that can effect our lives. just a minor thing to critique.
Gravity is also a theory, theories are essentially hypothesis that have withstood all attempts to disprove them so far.
He also brings up the slippery slope argument, which is a fallacy.
And he brought up the bathroom idea. I will say that the sex sign at a bathroom will not stop anyone who is planning to rape someone in a public restroom.

To be perfectly honest... It kind of feels like this Hunter guy is putting his feelings over the reality of the situation. I realize that's a bit of a No U argument but the video isn't exactly academic, even compared to Contrapoints' own more wacky videos.
I just watched them.

-Nonbinary,androgyne, and bigender arent a thing. The definition of gender is "the state of being male or female" You cant be genderless, something in between or both genders simultaneously.

-Being intersex is a deformity. It doesnt warrant its own special category. Definition of sex "
either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions)
Edited by Ice, Mar 10 2018, 09:06 PM.
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Tinny
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Tsuki
Mar 10 2018, 07:31 PM
Tinny
Mar 9 2018, 11:07 PM
Tsuki
Mar 9 2018, 10:56 PM
Tinny
Mar 9 2018, 09:32 PM
Also I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, this is basically a guess, this looked pretty niche to just find randomly. But is this how you came across the site by chance?
Posted Image
If this is how, or is similar to how (and this is a shot in the dark essentially) I can say this right now. I am genderfluid, basically it means my gender fluctuates from time to time, sometimes I feel like a man, other times like a woman. Essentially, I am transgender, I fit under that same umbrella. I do not have a mental disorder, and I hope in the future that this doesn't impact our interactions with each other.
The article was mentioned in this video. (Don't watch it though cuz it will probably make you really mad.)
https://youtu.be/aiBzaN3uuik
Also, i have nothing against trans people
It's more that I wasn't expecting something calling me mentally ill out the gate, now I have a bit of prep, as for Hunter Avellone guy, I have to say... Well

Posted Image
You can probably see why I'm skeptical of him as well. He is clearly a very right wing kind of person, simply using the language he does, casually referring to the left as "left wing hypocrits" if it's alright with you, I'd like to cite a counterexample to this.



This is contrapoints, she is a very left-wing youtuber who tackles a lot of political conflict, but these two videos I feel are particularly helpful to explaining it. Contrapoints uses a lot of dark and crazy humor, but overall I would say she's. Also skip the first 40 seconds of the What is Gender video if you're sensitive to seizure inducing stuff, the video itself immediately starts with a seizure warning but I figured I should say it here as well. I realize this probalby disagrees with a lot of what you think coming into this, but for that reason I think it'd be rather nice if you did watch and consider them, especially with the consideration that I am genderqueer myself.


Edit: minor critiques on his video mostly

Also regarding the whole "gender is not a social construct" as if social constructs are flimsy I'd like to correct this. Money is also social construct, and I'm sure we're all well aware at how much that can effect our lives. just a minor thing to critique.
Gravity is also a theory, theories are essentially hypothesis that have withstood all attempts to disprove them so far.
He also brings up the slippery slope argument, which is a fallacy.
And he brought up the bathroom idea. I will say that the sex sign at a bathroom will not stop anyone who is planning to rape someone in a public restroom.

To be perfectly honest... It kind of feels like this Hunter guy is putting his feelings over the reality of the situation. I realize that's a bit of a No U argument but the video isn't exactly academic, even compared to Contrapoints' own more wacky videos.
I just watched them. Here are my thoughts:

-Nonbinary,androgyne, and bigender arent a thing. The definition of gender is "the state of being male or female" You cant be genderless, something in between or both genders simultaneously.

-Being intersex is a deformity. It doesnt warrant its own special category. Definition of sex "
either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions)
I feel the need to point out that non-binary essentially means the entire umbrella of Genderqueer, to quote the wikipedia article
Quote:
 
Genderqueer, also termed non-binary, is a catch-all category for gender identities that are not exclusively masculine or feminine‍—‌identities which are outside the gender binary and cisnormativity.[1] Genderqueer people may express a combination of masculinity and femininity, or neither, in their gender expression.

Genderqueer people may identify as either having an overlap of, or indefinite lines between, gender identity;[2] having two or more genders (being bigender, trigender, or pangender); having no gender (being agender, nongendered, genderless, genderfree or neutrois); moving between genders or having a fluctuating gender identity (genderfluid);[3] or being third gender or other-gendered, a category which includes those who do not place a name to their gender.[4]

Gender identity is separate from sexual or romantic orientation,[5] and genderqueer people have a variety of sexual orientations, just as transgender and cisgender people do.

The underlined part is mine and is me, I believe I can safety assume you are not saying that I don't exist and that I'm lying, so I'll simply ask what exactly I should say in regards to my experience regarding my gender. Genderfluid describes me. androgyne also falls under this issue as again, genderfluid does fall under the androgyne umbrella. Bigender does not describe me, but I feel it's also worth bringing up the question there, for those who feel this change from feeling like a man to feeling like a woman much more extremely for anywhere from hours to years, what term would you use to describe this phenomena?



There various cultures which explicitly include third genders that take from both, including native american third genders, in particular would be of note the term "Two-spirit" used to replace the previous term known as Berdache which at that point had been seen as a slur here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit

Further more I do have to question what you mean by deformity, are you saying that they are misshapen individuals? Looking at the definition on google I came across
Quote:
 
a deformed part, especially of the body; a malformation.


So I do have to question what exactly you mean by "deformed." And especially why you call it such a charged word as deformity which brings to mind the image of the hunchback of notradame, or the Joseph "Elephant Man" Merrick
Posted Image
Certainly not an image like below
Posted Image
They don't look particularly deformed to me, and more to point, regarding deformity as a problem, I would point out that conservative estimates put intersex in about 1 in 2000, or .05% (this refers to ambiguous genitalia) taking in more various traits this increases to about 1.7% in intersex babies born, for comparison, redheads make about 2% of the population. Calling it a deformity seems somewhat odd when we consider they number almost as much as people with red hair. it's a 1.5-0.5% difference in population within America.
I should note I got these numbers (except for the read statistic which was just googling it) from Intersexequality.com https://www.intersexequality.com/how-common-is-intersex-in-humans/

I would also draw to this webpage where I got that image of the protesters from.
http://southfloridagaynews.com/Community/what-it-means-to-be-intersex.html
Yes it's from South Florida Gay News, but at the same time I feel that they should be able to speak for themselves on the issue of their existence.

In particular, in considering it a deformity many people have been forced to live as the opposite sex through no say of their own, here's a few accounts I'd like to pick out in specific.
Margaret Porter
a sophomore at the University of Central Florida
Margaret Porter, a sophomore at the University of Central Florida, is an intersex youth advocate with interACT. Her Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, falling under the intersex umbrella, was discovered when she was 4 years old when doctors were treating a hernia. While undergoing surgery, doctors found she had undescended testes and encouraged her parents to have them removed, citing a risk of testicular cancer.

Being both intersex and a biomedical sciences student, Porter has a unique perspective on the removal of her testes.

“I see both sides of it as a pre-med student and an intersex girl, but the historic policy of doctors towards intersex individuals has been far more cosmetically focused in an attempt to placate parents rather than provide for the future happiness of the, usually very young, patient,” she wrote in an email to Mirror.

Because her testes were removed, her body is unable to produce sex hormones as her female sex organs are nonfunctioning. Porters points out that “I require treatment because I was treated in the first place.”

Even more so I'm sure you'll recall David Reimer that I brought up a while back, who's penis was burned off, and then was forced to live as a girl. Again, even if they technically count as such, using suched charged language suggests the kind of mindset that has quite amazingly forced them to become men/women literally trapped within a woman/man's body.

And hell, going back the earlier question of this thread...
These Children should be able to just live, instead of being told they are deformed like they're the Hunchback of Notradame.


Further more I feel using dictionary definitions as a be all end all is a bit of a weak argument, dictionaries to not impose upon us the use of language, they keep track of how it is used, this is how you get stuff like this.
Posted Image
I know it sounds silly, but we do in fact use literally like that, and any dictionary worth using will catalog all these uses, because it is mean to teach how language is used, not impose what it should be. More to the point sex is rarely determined merely by whether one produces sperm or egg cells, for relatively obvious reasons, namely that you can't tell, certainly not in polite society where everyone is wearing clothes to cover up genitalia.

And more to the point, efforts of Surgeons to "fix the deformities" as too many people think of it end up hurting those very people it was supposed to fix, again to go back to that webpage from South Florida Gay News
Dr. Sherman Leis
the founder of The Philadelphia Center for Transgender Surgery
However, in his decades as a surgeon, he has seen the consequences of intersex adults coming to him for help to fix the mistakes that doctors made on them as children -- something he says he sees “regularly.”
He is an advocate for not performing surgery on these children until the Children are old enough to decide what they want (which should sound familiar considering why this thread started in the first place :p )

And no offense, but if that is the case, what am I? I literally switch between them every so often that is how I feel which one I am. I would not call myself wishy washy, I am quite sure of where I am, and what I am like, and have been for a while now, and it is genderfluid.

In addition, I feel wikipedia gives a more complete idea of what gender means these days than the google definition. It is as follows
Quote:
 
Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e., the state of being male, female, or an intersex variation), sex-based social structures (i.e., gender roles), or gender identity.
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My bad. i should have used the term "birth defect". And I dont really know how i feel about the genderfluid thing because i havent looked into it.
Edited by Ice, Mar 10 2018, 11:10 PM.
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Tinny
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Tsuki
Mar 10 2018, 11:05 PM
My bad. i should have used the term "birth defect". And I dont really know how i feel about the genderfluid thing because i havent looked into it.
That still overall has the same, if to a lesser degree, stigma though wouldn't it? Especially in regards to how often surgeries are done to get rid of them. I can get it being considered as such in a medical context, but often treating such defects only ends up requiring more treatment to treat the effects of the treatment. That's hardly good is it?

And you can ask me, I am genderfluid, it's quite simple. Sometimes I am a man, other times a woman, there's nothing more to it really.
Edited by Tinny, Mar 10 2018, 11:17 PM.
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Tinny
Mar 10 2018, 11:16 PM
Tsuki
Mar 10 2018, 11:05 PM
My bad. i should have used the term "birth defect". And I dont really know how i feel about the genderfluid thing because i havent looked into it.
That still overall has the same, if to a lesser degree, stigma though wouldn't it? Especially in regards to how often surgeries are done to get rid of them. I can get it being considered as such in a medical context, but often treating such defects only ends up requiring more treatment to treat the effects of the treatment. That's hardly good is it?

And you can ask me, I am genderfluid, it's quite simple. Sometimes I am a man, other times a woman, there's nothing more to it really.
I know what it is. I just wasn't sure if it was legitimate or not.

Anyways, there's a medical term that explains it, "Childhood Gender-Switching". It is a phenomenon documented by psychologists where "a child will take on or adopt the role of a different gender. (similar to roleplaying) It's usually a phase that you outgrow, but not always".

Source: https://youtu.be/ilw5LVOM7cA (skip to 4:00)
Edited by Ice, Mar 13 2018, 08:10 PM.
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Absolutely not. Kids can't be trusted to make such a big decision even if it's their own body
IT'S CHEESE
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I don't want to come off as rude here but I'm genuinely curious about this. If someone thinks they're opposite then doesn't that mean something is wrong? That's obviously not normal so why are people against calling it a mental disorder? I mean obviously nobody wants to be told they have a mental disorder but by definition shouldn't it be a mental disorder?
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Mar 14 2018, 05:26 PM.
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption

Because there is some argument and evidence that it is physiological, in which case calling it a mental disorder would be inaccurate. Although you are right, it is a disorder of some kind. Also, regarding intersex being a deformity, there's no argument. It is one, in the same way that being born with an extra toe, finger, or any other body part is a deformity. There doesn't have to be a negative connotation attached to it, unless it negatively impacts a person's life. Even then, the connotation is 'oh, it's unfortunate for that to happen to a person'.
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"Then you've got the chance to do better next time."
"Next time?"
"Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."
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Mitas
Mar 14 2018, 05:36 PM
Because there is some argument and evidence that it is physiological, in which case calling it a mental disorder would be inaccurate. Although you are right, it is a disorder of some kind. Also, regarding intersex being a deformity, there's no argument. It is one, in the same way that being born with an extra toe, finger, or any other body part is a deformity. There doesn't have to be a negative connotation attached to it, unless it negatively impacts a person's life. Even then, the connotation is 'oh, it's unfortunate for that to happen to a person'.
There are almost as many intersex people as there are people with red hair, but somehow I doubt anyone would appreciate it if you started going around calling red hair a deformity. You say it's the same as having another tone, overall in the industry there is a large tendency to view this as some awful thing that you have to fix and parents will be often pushed into this with fear inducing statements about it, rather than simply telling them as it is, that their genitals are different, and that there is a specific term, against calling these things deformities because people's bodies are modified without their consent by parents who are being fear mongered into doing so.

Ssj3vegito96
 
I don't want to come off as rude here but I'm genuinely curious about this. If someone thinks they're opposite then doesn't that mean something is wrong? That's obviously not normal so why are people against calling it a mental disorder? I mean obviously nobody wants to be told they have a mental disorder but by definition shouldn't it be a mental disorder?

When it gets bad, it is called Gender dysphoria, and Gender Dysphoria generally refers to the acute distress people face from this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
Not all people have it, but some do, and it's common enough. Also regarding that, I do have to ask why that matters so much when children are instead forced into medical procedures which cost them greatly, often requiring later medical help to aide in problems that stem entirely from surgeries done on them by medical professionals, often at the behest of scared parents who have likely had their fears stoked by the doctor, who often suggests surgery as a way to "ensure they have normal lives." And Vegito, I've already posted one particular case of a man realizing they were literally trapped in the wrong body. David Reimer.
Tsuki
 
I know what it is. I just wasn't sure if it was legitimate or not.

Anyways, there's a medical term that explains it, "Childhood Gender-Switching". It is a phenomenon documented by psychologists where "a child will take on or adopt the role of a different gender. (similar to roleplaying) It's usually a phase that you outgrow, but not always".

Source: https://youtu.be/ilw5LVOM7cA (skip to 4:00)

Regarding that, it should be simple enough to tell in that case who simply does it for fun, and who feels a sense of distress from it right? Gender identity disorder does bring real tangible stress to them. Self-mutilation, depression, stress, more prone to anxiety, things like that as the man in the video puts it. It should be easy enough to tell, especially for a trained medical professional, if they have GID or if they're simply roleplaying it right? Unless I am misunderstanding the post lol, in which case I blame my own delay to responding to this. Actually this guy even discusses the sexual reassignment surgery that does happen to certain babies, like girls who's vulva are too large, a boy who's penis is to small (yes these have been counted as intersex, and unfortunately operated on as if they were intersex I wish I were joking), or genuinely intersex genitals which are covered up in surgery.




I guess I'm harping on a lot about it, but I do consider this a major problem, it's a disgusting thing that happens precisely because of the public's attitudes towards these "deformed" "birth defect" etc genitalia, which often result in operations being done on them that ends up creating lasting harm that requires medical attention for that very surgery. This is at the core of my issue with the labeling of these things, it's not just semantics this effects people's lives, scholarly fields can use whatever term because they're gonna be used by professionals who understand the nuances, all a normal person will think with "deformity" is the Elephant Man.
Edited by Tinny, Mar 14 2018, 11:28 PM.
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Tinny
Mar 14 2018, 11:27 PM
Mitas
Mar 14 2018, 05:36 PM
Because there is some argument and evidence that it is physiological, in which case calling it a mental disorder would be inaccurate. Although you are right, it is a disorder of some kind. Also, regarding intersex being a deformity, there's no argument. It is one, in the same way that being born with an extra toe, finger, or any other body part is a deformity. There doesn't have to be a negative connotation attached to it, unless it negatively impacts a person's life. Even then, the connotation is 'oh, it's unfortunate for that to happen to a person'.
There are almost as many intersex people as there are people with red hair, but somehow I doubt anyone would appreciate it if you started going around calling red hair a deformity. You say it's the same as having another tone, overall in the industry there is a large tendency to view this as some awful thing that you have to fix and parents will be often pushed into this with fear inducing statements about it, rather than simply telling them as it is, that their genitals are different, and that there is a specific term, against calling these things deformities because people's bodies are modified without their consent by parents who are being fear mongered into doing so.
Red hair is caused by a genetic mutation and is accompanied by increased health risks in certain areas (skin cancer being one of them). It is also a defect/deformity and one that, like others, people are often bullied and ridiculed for having. Like I said, whether these things are defects or not is not up for debate.

Edit: But again, like I said, I don't believe it has to be a bad thing or that people should be treated differently because of it. It just is what it is. I think it's more helpful to have people accept things as they are, rather than try to avoid it and dress it up. If you teach people to avoid terminology then you're teaching them to fear it. The same way that nobody is ever ugly and everyone is beautiful. If looks truly don't matter, then saying 'everybody is beautiful' is backwards because you're still placing value on appearance and the people who are ugly still feel bad because they know it's not true. Teach them that it's OK if they aren't attractive.
Edited by Mitas, Mar 15 2018, 08:42 AM.
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