Shape of Water

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Shape of Water
Tweet Topic Started: Mar 3 2018, 11:53 AM (800 Views)
TrunksinSwimmingTrunks	Mar 3 2018, 11:53 AM Post #1
Formerly known as daman Posts: 8,651 Group: Member Member #5,599 Joined: January 6, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country Canada Favourite Anime One Piece, Gintama, You and Me, Haibane Renmei, Initial D, FMAB, No. 6, Wtt NHK! , Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Tortoises were made to live not be used. Stormo/Pedy/Nims/songohanfrancais whereru Favourite Manga Dorohedoro,IamaHero, Again!!, All Rounder Meguru,RRR,Berserk,Dragon Boru. Ninjajp/Slayerslice appeal	Anyone seen this? It has good acting, but it made me rethink the whole "normalising homosexuality will lead to normalising beastiality" argument that used to be made by some people. Throughout the film we're constantly reminded how forms of discrimation that are unacceptable today (racism and homophobia) were very acceptable a few decades ago. After being given this message, Del Torro then introduces an interspecies romantic and sexual relationship. To me this is an attempt to say "just like we used to consider homosexuality wrong but now don't, we should maybe make the same shift in thinking regarding beastiality". I'm not making this post from an anti-homosexuality or anti-beastiality standpoint, but just from a neutral one and wondering whether others think this could be the start of us descending down the "slippery slope" that many social conservatives used to argue we would be going down.
	kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw Make the old spam section viewable plz


Darker	Mar 3 2018, 09:25 PM Post #2
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,358 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	I feel like we've already made a thread for this movie. Only reason I'm gonna watch this one is because it's based off The Creature from the Black Lagoon. Del Toro wanted a movie where the monster got the girl for once, and I'm fine with that.
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


+ Steve	Mar 3 2018, 10:01 PM Post #3
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	I can honestly see that being on the cards some day but I doubt it will be soon, there aren't many animals you could have that kind of connection with in reality, dogs are the most emotionally investable(which is definitely a word) animal we have. But then again the bestiality industry is pretty in the dark so not sure what would really make it popular. I guess lots of weird stories of people marrying their pet and then social media campaigns of "They really love each other, there's no harm!" In any case that's a hilarious anti-gay argument, never heard that one only the "We'll all be gay in the future if this keeps up!" one. Haven't seen the movie myself, not particularly interested to be honest. I like my monsters to be smashing and killing stuff not boning chicks, there's hentai for that.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


lazerbem	Mar 4 2018, 12:41 AM Post #4
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Bestiality is controversial because the animal isn't able to consent. However, the creature is a freakin GOD! It's not the same as an animal, he could clearly think and understand what was happening. On the face of it, the premise of your argument has utterly no support. If a dog had human intellect no one would care about you diddling it.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


*Copy_Ninja*	Mar 4 2018, 04:08 AM Post #5
*Novacane for the pain* Posts: 8,033 Group: Guardian Member #6,499 Joined: July 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter (2011) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Monster, One Piece, Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter X Hunter, Death Note, SnK	I don't think it's about beastialty(sp?) specifically but more about "otherness" and discrimination in general. I watched a good video on this yesterday (which I'll link below) but basically she explained how a lot of the monster movies of monsters taking white women (like Creature from the Black Lagoon or King Kong) kind of originated from the fear white men had of black men taking "their" women. That was a significant feature of Birth of a Nation after all. Then we went further by "humanising" the monsters we see in these movies in stuff like Beauty and the Beast or Phantom of the Opera. Of course, when doing that they had to change the beast to something more human before they fully "got the girl." With this movie, he doesn't have to change at all and is accepted for who, and what, he is. I think there's a quote from Del Toro as well which talks about how being an immigrant influenced it all. Anyway, check the video out if you have a spare 25 minutes, it's a good watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YesMWAxqJ60&t=0s
	We'll never be those kids again


Darker	Mar 4 2018, 05:04 AM Post #6
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,358 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Adding to what lazer said, if this movie's creature is anything like Gill-man, then he's more closely related to any of us than any fish known to man, so he's probably more human than animal, poetically speaking. Copy_Ninja Mar 4 2018, 04:08 AM I don't think it's about beastialty(sp?) specifically but more about "otherness" and discrimination in general. I watched a good video on this yesterday (which I'll link below) but basically she explained how a lot of the monster movies of monsters taking white women (like Creature from the Black Lagoon or King Kong) kind of originated from the fear white men had of black men taking "their" women. I can understand using the natives from King Kong as an example, but Gill-man and King Kong don't work here, for one because Kong didn't fall in love in any of the movies and I can't see how Gill-man represents black men in any way, even stereotypically speaking... Kong was hypnotized by how different a blonde woman looked from his usual sacrifices and kept her as a toy in the original movie and novelization, and Gill-man was looking for a mate as he was the last of his species, it's quite different from this movie where there's an actual romance going on. Quote: That was a significant feature of Birth of a Nation after all. Then we went further by "humanising" the monsters we see in these movies in stuff like Beauty and the Beast or Phantom of the Opera. Of course, when doing that they had to change the beast to something more human before they fully "got the girl." With this movie, he doesn't have to change at all and is accepted for who, and what, he is. I think there's a quote from Del Toro as well which talks about how being an immigrant influenced it all. Phantom of the Opera isn't a good example here either Erik, the Phantom, dies at the end of the story and doesn't change at all, unless there's a very specific adaptation where he lives and gets the girl like the Beast does.
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


+ Son-Goku	Mar 10 2018, 03:12 AM Post #7
孫悟空 Posts: 13,359 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	This movie looks weird
	RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power


Darker	Mar 10 2018, 03:33 AM Post #8
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,358 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Does it?
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


+ Son-Goku	Mar 10 2018, 03:34 AM Post #9
孫悟空 Posts: 13,359 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	Don't you think so?
	RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power


Darker	Mar 10 2018, 03:43 AM Post #10
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,358 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Not at all.
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


+ Green	Mar 17 2018, 10:46 PM Post #11
Flashy Thing! Posts: 5,436 Group: Legend Member #1,181 Joined: February 25, 2006 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Fire fox Favourite Manga Gantz	I'm interested in seeing this because of the director but at the same time I hear its a love story and I don't want that to bore me. I'm going to wait until it is available to rent (it might actually be now).
	Don't you ever worry that you're on the Devil's side without even knowing it? - DCI John Luther Black power ranger; I do not belong... B.o.B - Mr. Mister


+ Emmeth	Mar 18 2018, 10:08 PM Post #12
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	I loved the movie, probably deserved best movie of the year. I'm not surprised I liked it though because I always enjoy Del Toro's films, he just strikes me as a guy who loves movies and what he does. I'm not really gonna join in on the discussion about bestiality because that's not what this movie is about.
	My Twitch Page


+ Ginyu	Mar 20 2018, 05:15 AM Post #13
Leve Feyenoord 1! Posts: 4,490 Group: Elite Member Member #9,685 Joined: June 30, 2013 Gender Female Country Netherlands Favourite Anime NJPW What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Reading is for nerds, yo!	TrunksinSwimmingTrunks Mar 3 2018, 11:53 AM Anyone seen this? It has good acting, but it made me rethink the whole "normalising homosexuality will lead to normalising beastiality" argument that used to be made by some people. Throughout the film we're constantly reminded how forms of discrimation that are unacceptable today (racism and homophobia) were very acceptable a few decades ago. After being given this message, Del Torro then introduces an interspecies romantic and sexual relationship. To me this is an attempt to say "just like we used to consider homosexuality wrong but now don't, we should maybe make the same shift in thinking regarding beastiality". I'm not making this post from an anti-homosexuality or anti-beastiality standpoint, but just from a neutral one and wondering whether others think this could be the start of us descending down the "slippery slope" that many social conservatives used to argue we would be going down. the argument you're talking about is a slippery slope fallacy and it doesn't stand because the argument people use against it is: CONSENTING ADULTS. That is all. This is a movie about a creature that clearly has the cognitive ability no other animal today possesses, therefore it is not bestiality. And if it is bestiality than it's obviously a less controversial version of it.
	Ask GinyuTokusentai


Tinny	Mar 20 2018, 01:28 PM Post #14
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Quote: It has good acting, but it made me rethink the whole "normalising homosexuality will lead to normalising beastiality" argument that used to be made by some people. Throughout the film we're constantly reminded how forms of discrimation that are unacceptable today (racism and homophobia) were very acceptable a few decades ago. After being given this message, Del Torro then introduces an interspecies romantic and sexual relationship. To me this is an attempt to say "just like we used to consider homosexuality wrong but now don't, we should maybe make the same shift in thinking regarding beastiality". I'm not making this post from an anti-homosexuality or anti-beastiality standpoint, but just from a neutral one and wondering whether others think this could be the start of us descending down the "slippery slope" that many social conservatives used to argue we would be going down. Movie monsters are basically coded for minorities, particularly black people going all the way back to the original Birth of a Nation, since then these monsters have always been something of a stand in for minorities, in both racial and sexual ways. I would recommend you keep that in mind with the creature, not to mention they make this argument constantly in the film, each time rebutted by the fact that it is a consenting adult. This isn't coded as bestiality, it is showing how the racism towards this creature is but a very clear extension of our racism towards each other. I realize this is from a long time ago but I still wanted to give my view on this. Also, hypothesising that aliens that look like the creature from the black lagoon do exist, what exactly would you say regarding romantic and sexual relations? Anyway, I've seen the movie and it's really sweet in my opinion. The leads are all pretty cool, and it's hard to pick a favorite character between our monster from the black lagoon, the scientist, our artist, and the cleaning staff to be honest, they're all really nice characters and you want to see them succeed. If I had to make a complaint, maybe they made the villain too cartoonishly evil, but I'd be lying if I he said he wasn't a logical end point of toxic masculinity and in general he seems to represent a lot that's wrong in America's culture. At least that's how I saw it. It's actually kind of funny since sometimes Del Toro really hits a home run like in Pan's Labyrinth, or he makes a movie I really dislike (despite others loving) like Pacific Rim, I would say this was a home run though. Edited by Tinny, Mar 20 2018, 01:35 PM.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


Darker	Mar 20 2018, 01:42 PM Post #15
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,358 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Tinny Mar 20 2018, 01:28 PM Movie monsters are basically coded for minorities, particularly black people going all the way back to the original Birth of a Nation, since then these monsters have always been something of a stand in for minorities, in both racial and sexual ways. At best this only applies to 10% of all movie monsters. Maybe less. Quote: I realize this is from a long time ago but I still wanted to give my view on this. If by 'a long time ago' you mean the movies this is taking inspiration from, that wasn't the case then either.
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


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