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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 15 2018, 01:39 AM (5,120 Views) | |
| Mc Esse | Mar 3 2018, 11:46 PM Post #61 |
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but Steve. A semi auto shot gun is commonly used for deer hunting. It shoots more rounds per second than an AR15. A bolt action can still mow down a lot of people. Just check the world record holder. Granted that’s the exception not the rule. Alright so I’ll get this out of the way. You have a problem with guns in our culture. Period. ??? mate. Go close that other topic. You just debunked the myth of a tyrannical government. You are stripping law abiding citizens from bearing arms, self preservation and defending themselves period.
In other words , a gun registry ? No that’s not what you said. But you defined it. Again. That’s something a tyrannical government would do. Oh and btw Steve. Didn’t some knife attacks happen in the UK not long ago. Cars were involved as well. Forget the fatality numbers. This is more important. People were unable to defend themselves. Edited by Mc Esse, Mar 3 2018, 11:48 PM.
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| Arkadom | Mar 3 2018, 11:51 PM Post #62 |
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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In the time it takes one person with a knife to get one kill, someone with an automatic weapon can get dozens. It's also much easier to apprehend a knife-wielding aggressor than a gun-toting psychopath, you can actually get within reach to even try and fight back against a knife. But seeing as you tried to act like knives are as bad as guns, lets consider for a moment that guns are built exclusively with the intemt to harm and kill. There is pretty much no use for a gun that does not result in somebody being killed. Knives are most commonly kitchen utensils and no matter what Migos might tell you, you can't cook anything with an uzi. And even still, in the UK you need to have ID to buy any knife. Guns are literally instruments of terrorism. Robbing a store instills terror into the people affected by it, cops gunning down an unarmed black man on the sidewalk is a terrorist act. If we're not meant to trust terrorist with guns then nobody should have guns because that is a pretty quick VIP ticket to acts of terrorism. Pretty sad how so many in the home of the brave can be afraid of a skin colour but fight to great extremes to protect their murder cannons. Apparently a cold chunk of steel is more important than the lives of children. Most of the world have put severe restrictions on firearms, and no other first world country is even touching double digits as far as incidents involved firearms are concerned in over a decade. America has entered triple digits per year. If that doesn't say something needs to change then this is an issue of a country that might as well be living on a planet. This is not normal, this does not happen every day, this could not happen to anyone. This does not happen anywhere else, and the parents of children gunned down in their own schools are not going to blame the people that want the guns taken away, they're going to blame all the self-righteous people that genuinely allow the current gun laws to persist and allow their children to go into school every day wondering if they might actually die, just so they can feel empowered by owning a gun that won't save their life in pretty much any situation unless they spend every living moment with a finger on the trigger, and even then most people are more likely to kill an innocent than their actual target. No country in the world is especially qualified to wield firearms, because every country is populated with people. Humans. Some of the most cowardly, snap-reaction based creatures on the planet. |
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In these eyes of mine Spoiler: click to toggle Epic for Copy_Ninja
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| + Steve | Mar 4 2018, 12:17 AM Post #63 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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If you can't do it in one or two shots you're a s*** hunter. Why put more people at risk of these weapons because people can't do it in one shot?
Yet again defending from what? We don't have guns everywhere here...our government hasn't went crazy and killed us all, are they scared of us men in kilts or is that just an unrealistic fear? We have one of the most well equipped and trained armies in the world, they could utterly decimate us and we have barely anything to defend ourselves with. And absolutely no reason to even worry about that.
I said regulation, that's regulating.
No lets not forget the fatality numbers because knife attacks regularly kill like at most 5 people and it's usually only in that moment of panic when nobody knows what's going on. You can't really dodge how much more deadly guns are. Here's what can happen when unarmed UK citizens are met with danger: ![]() |
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| Mc Esse | Mar 4 2018, 02:35 AM Post #64 |
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That man is a hero. With all due respect I say this: he was aided by 2 cops and a mob of other civilians not to mention the assailants were on fire. put simply and accurately. Défense from anyone else trying to harm you. it could be a tyrannical government. It could be a terrorist it could be a burglar. It could be a robber. It could be a mental patient. Didn’t I answer this already? The 2nd amendment gives you the right to self preservate
No... You implied a gun registry. Going into peoples’ homes. Trespassing onto people’s private property. Which is protected by the 4th amendment from illegal searches and seizures. That’s something a tyrannical government would do. Counting their guns equals Counting their ammo. That’s a registry Again something a tyrannical government would do. That’s exactly what tyrannical governments do before they ban guns. And the US already has a background check for purchasing a gun legally. Did you actually think you can walk into a pawn shop with a wad of cash buy a gun and leave without filling any paper work ?? There was a knife attack in China that took more lives than columbine. It doesn’t take a genius to know that guns are made for the sole purpose of killing. But you can sadly kill someone with a car or with a knife.
Again automatic weapons. Uzis. Guns where you can hold the trigger and bullets constantly spray out. Are illegal for private citizens to own.
That’s not true. This stuff does happen else where. America doesn’t lead the world in mass shootings. America doesn’t lead the world in violent crime. Violent crime has been happening alot in Europe latley. As well. Your gun control didn’t decrease the violent crime. Edited by Mc Esse, Mar 4 2018, 02:41 AM.
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| Daniel | Mar 4 2018, 05:46 AM Post #65 |
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I like Pokémon
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I have to ask, are you trolling? You pick and choose snippets to respond to, reading them out of context - and then make some of the most illogical counterarguments I've seen in a while. Are you serious? |
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| Mc Esse | Mar 4 2018, 08:13 AM Post #66 |
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Actually Daniel I’m not taking what the other members said out of context. Not only that. I’m making sure I’ve said what I’m responding to in the most proper form of context possible by communicating with my fellow members. Because that’s what a conversation is all about, communication. I’m not even trying to get anyone angry here, So no I am not trolling. What’s so illogical about my argument ? Edited by Mc Esse, Mar 4 2018, 08:24 AM.
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| + Steve | Mar 4 2018, 01:11 PM Post #67 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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And that was just one example, you don't need guns to defend yourself and if attackers have guns you're better off running away anyway.
And why does no other first world country need guns for citizens to protect themselves or feel safe? You make it seem to be a need but explain why the only threat people are worried about elsewhere is any potential terrorists which again attack rarely and only in important places, nobody in some random town like my own has any fear of that.
Amendment this, amendment that. Why do amendments matter more than actually making sure citizens are protected? Anyone who is a responsible gun owner and not a criminal wouldn't have to be scared of any sort of home check, if you're committed and respect your weaponry as you should then you should be adult enough to not cry about keeping it all in check. Much the same as a car, if you don't have a license, insurance, MOT and you drive like s*** you don't deserve a car and it gets taken away from you and it has to be recorded what vehicle/s you have. But with guns, actual deadly weapons purely designed to kill or maim, that's a step too far?
And then what happens exactly?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5425459/Shocking-video-shows-13-year-old-easily-buying-gun.html For starters isn't that only for some weapons? And clearly these background checks do their work since loads of young people end up with weapons. And what really is the point in just that when you can buy a gun at 21 and might not have got in any trouble with the law yet? Stupidly young age to be able to buy them in the first place.
This is really just avoiding the point, you can go in to all the technicals you want but you can't claim that a semi-automatic isn't dangerous because it might shoot slightly slower. If anything I'd almost wager it's easier with a semi-auto because you can control recoil much better, especially if this is from a distance. The technical difference between automatic and semi-automatic is pointless, they are all killing machines and they all do that job very well.
Because of terrorists and destabilisation due to immigrants, that doesn't really fit your narrative there. The US is destroying itself more than any actual terrorists do. You might as well claim that there's more violent crime in an actual warzone, hardly the same in a country not in any sort of turmoil. Nobody is consistently attacking the US. Also from what I can tell you're incorrect anyway: https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html Furthermore Europe is many countries so you'd be pulling statistics from multiple areas and cultures to compete with just the US, why does just one country have such a disproportionate amount of gun crime? It really doesn't do an favours to avoid the damage guns and gun crime does by saying other things happen more often or anything like that, guns still do way more damage in way shorter a time. A couple of stabbings a week across a whole continent hardly compares to what happens in the US and no matter what you want to say a knife will never compare to a gun in sheer deadliness. Also FYI Europe has over double the population of the US, so even if you do want to tackle that angle you still can't deny the massively disproportionate amount of crime in the US. It's ridiculous. |
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| superperfectnerd | Mar 4 2018, 02:55 PM Post #68 |
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You give up some freedom for security, that's how society works. You can't just do everything and anything you want, we have laws. The government isn't one mind, a government becomes tyrannical, there are people within the government comprised of ordinary citizens who will resist that, same with the police, same with the army, it's not one big hive mind. You either have all common people on both sides with guns or all common people without guns. If the military remains controlled by the government then you're screwed anyway. What are your handguns and AR15s going to do against drones? Ground to air missiles? Fighter jets? Tanks? What's is this world you live in where everyone has a gun and that means everyone can defend themselves... from people who also have guns!? Stricter regulations isn't even the answer. Enough is enough, no more guns, join the rest of the civilised world. Terrorism is a problem but statistically speaking more people die falling off the toilet than they do in a terrorist attack here in the UK. Edited by superperfectnerd, Mar 4 2018, 02:57 PM.
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| + Steve | Mar 4 2018, 08:32 PM Post #69 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I think ultimately banning guns would be ideal but I saw that there's like 310 million civilian guns over there at least, which is around HALF the estimated total civilian weaponry of the WHOLE WORLD. The US makes up around 5% of the worlds population and almost has 50% of it's non-military guns. Regulation for some years to slowly phase that out would be the best option and then just ban them, because as the line is spun so often, criminals would still have their guns so on some level people might need home protection for a time. Not that the narrative of "We're constantly under attack and need our guns!" is actually a thing that's happening. Isn't sad how stuff like fireworks are more regulated? They're treated as dangerous and scary and they freak animals out so people want them banned but guns are FUNFUNFUN. Anyway, s*** looks promising when Trump declares he's having meetings with the NRA. Free guns for everyone. |
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| Mc Esse | Mar 4 2018, 10:01 PM Post #70 |
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because no other country in the world is as free as the Unites States of America. In no other country do you have the freedom to self préservante, freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of religion. no other country’s is based on freedom the way the US’s constitution is.
That’s not true. Terrorism is not the only threat people worry about. I answered your question twice already and I only listed terrorism as an example. In London the reported went up 20% in one year. I challenge you to ask any woman in London “would you feel safer if you had a gun”. Alright so what? You’re only lobbying for gun laws because your home town is a safe place ? I’m not putting words in your mouth I’m asking you a question..
the constitution ensures you that you have the right to protect yourself. From anyone, and that you have the right to say and do whatever you want. Assuming it doesn’t trample on any other law abiding citizens’ rights
Yes they should. It’s like I said before. Registries and breaching private property is what tyrants do. Oh and btw. It’s not because you don’t deserve a car that you get it taken away. If you drive like s*** you put yourself at risk as well as other. It’s a felon to be drunk and drive. It’s a felony to run someone over. You get your car taken away from you because your breaking the law. If you don’t have insurance and accidentally crash into someone else’s car and you dont have insurance to cover for the damages, you’re screwed and like i said again. Preventing other law abiding citizens from obtaining their American dream.
You lose your freedom to self preservation. You lose your freedom of speech. You lose your freedom of expression. You lose you freedom of privacy. You can’t. Buy any gun without a background check. Usually gun shops from certain states won’t sell you a gun if your from another state. But that’s at the gun stores’ discretion. What that boy did was illegal. Obtaining a forearm without a background check being under aged. So again that’s already illegal. Of course. A semi auto is dangerous. That’s why you can’t buy a gun if you’re a felon. You can’t buy a gun if you have a history of violence. You can’t buy a gun if you’re mentally ill (though I’ll admit those restrictions need some work ). So we can agree there’s a difference between automatics and semi autos. Good As for your last huge rant about the US and it’s gun populace. I’ll say.. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-gun-control-advocates-claims-u-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/ CNN is not really the best source of news. Some of the journalists or analysts are alright. Most of their information is skewed. Or bias. My opinion. Btw Steve thanks for not insulting me. Thanks for being a good sport even though you don’t agree with me mostly. See THIS is America. Being able to express your own point of view with each other. Edited by Mc Esse, Mar 4 2018, 10:09 PM.
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| + Steve | Mar 4 2018, 11:03 PM Post #71 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Yes you're free to your cult-like belief there.
So I'm to ask a woman in London, the frequent target of attacks? How about I ask people who don't live in a dangerous area instead because that's a lot more representative of the country as a whole, which is entirely the same as the US. A terrorist attack isn't happening in bumbf*** town in Arkansas, nobody in anywhere besides important political targets has any vaguely realistic fear of terrorism.
But it doesn't ensure you go out of the way to protect your children and future generations so I'm not sure why I should care about the constitution really.
You make it sound like you'd be having SWAT teams bust your door down and ransacking your whole house, no need to be paranoid if you have no criminal inclinations you wouldn't have anything to worry about. Your people are weirdly scared of your own government, it's baffling really. As s*** a place as the US can be it's still clearly one of the "Good" guys compared to the likes of North Korea, the President isn't going to go all Hitler on you and enslave people, the modern world wouldn't just take that.
In what way are any of those realistic fears and as if the government doesn't know virtually everything about you already, like I said before you're already in their pocket they have absolutely no reason to mess with any of that unless the world nearly ends and becomes some dystopian society.
...you say that like mass shooters give a damn about the law. The exact problem is that he could have got that gun and just went and killed some people and that's f***ing ridiculous. You shouldn't be able to run a gun store if you're in irresponsible a***** like that, if that kid went and killed people the blood would be just as much on the store owners hands for letting an obvious child buy a deadly weapon. He should have been fired immediately or trained to do better. That's like a doctor just thoughtlessly injecting you with something they shouldn't have and just passing it off like it's fine, the sale of deadly weapons should be a carefully done thing and clearly it just isn't.
This is again a pretty false narrative since it's including acts of terrorism like that's part of normal life. I mean I could just as easily make a study on deaths and go back to 2001 so that there's a convenient boost of deaths from 9/11 to fit that same narrative and make the US shoot out in front. I've looked at a few sites and they interestingly all cite that same 2009-2015 study because these days gun crime elsewhere is going down but where's bias without only citing old news. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-norway-australia-gun-control-20180301-story.html Mostly posting because I like the 1 comment on it:
You know what the best thing about Norway being mentioned in that study is though? Pretty sure there hasn't been another mass shooting there since, they actually bothered to change things and it worked. I've searched Google for ages and I can't find another one, only that 2011 one comes up. Their gun crime has almost been completely wiped out and in 2016 there were only like 9 genuine murders total. After just a few significant attacks they said enough is enough and tightened restrictions. They didn't even ban guns, gun ownership is still relatively high there. There is no reason at all why it wouldn't work in America and like I said before if you're unwilling to do some testing to prove you should be allowed to have a weapon, you simply shouldn't have one. No amount of amendment talk changes the fact that these are deadly weapons, Americans aren't special, they shouldn't have the right to just get them easily because "the constitution said so" Every other country that puts restrictions on weapons succeeds in lowering or eliminating extreme gun crime from legally obtained weaponry. In Japan you can only have air rifles and shotguns, you have to take a written test and you have to be re-tested every 3 years. Having a culture so obsessed with guns does not mean Americans are better or more responsible in their use, if anything it should be clear that treating them so callously confirms it's the exact opposite. There's no respect for how dangerous these weapons are, they are shiny toys everyone is entitled too and that's it. |
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| superperfectnerd | Mar 5 2018, 01:14 AM Post #72 |
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Like Jim Jefferies said, why do you think so many people are "out to get you?" How many enemies do you have? If somebody breaks into your house, it's likely because they want to steal your tv, not murder you and your family dead. Get house insurance or just tell the police your tv was stolen, don't need to have a to the death gun fight over a tv. |
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| + Steve | Mar 5 2018, 08:23 AM Post #73 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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Yeah, guns and murder seem to be the answer to everything and that seems to be okay because "My property" or "My rights" etc etc It's pretty mad really, the right to take a life shouldn't be so casual. Like how I mentioned with US police officers before, way too trigger happy. A little puppy is annoying them at a crime scene BANG dangerous animal what if I die?? Some guy stole a purse with like $13 in it, f***ing murder him! Unarmed criminal on the ground with his hands up? Shoot him a few times just to be sure, who needs training anyway. That guys skin is a bit dark... It's silly. People aren't responsible with their guns, you can see that with how many domestic cases there are. People quite easily go nuts and shoot their significant other, these toys aren't treated like they're actually a necessity they're just a quick and easy way out of anything. The right to take life shouldn't just be handed to you because of the country you're born in. Especially when that country claims to be the greatest country in the world. |
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| Mc Esse | Mar 5 2018, 06:46 PM Post #74 |
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it doesn’t ensure your future generations protection if you abolish it . If they have a registry. They can send it more men with more guns to take your guns away... . So then what’s the point of having a gun registry? .no. Gun stores are outlawed from selling to minors. They can have their permits revoked and their shops closed if they do. Of course mass shooters don’t care about the law. If they did they wouldn’t go on a rampage.
Okay. Did the crime rate increase in urban American metropolises as much as it’s had in big English cities like London? Besides you keep mentioning small town America having less crime than big cities. Thank you for making my point why we hear about a shooting in the USA every day. It’s a huge country. Same reason why there’s more crime in London than there is in Luton.
Dude. Your cnn link went back to 1966. Don’t you think some of those people in those eastern bloc countries would have liked to be armed in the 60’s during the reign of their tyrannical government. ?
How is that a false narrative. My source was not biased at all. If you bothered reading it. They litterally put an asterisk on Norway being there. Norway is not a safe crime ridden country. It still has a load of violet crime despite having a scattered population. So no. MAybe there’s a lack of crime in buckeye bum*** town USA. But buckeye Norway is rampant in violent crime. . Japan? You keep saying tyranny is a paranoia and now you’re using Japan ?do you not think that those people would have like to be armed under an imperialistic authoritarian government ?? The government of Japan has killed more people in a tyrannical fashion in recent history than has ever occurred in the USA. Does freedom of speech exist in Japan ? no. No. It’s not a cult belief. I’m not telling you to be putting faith in a talking snake or a Holy Ghost. Freedom of speech is not a fundamental human right in anywhere else in the world. They don’t have it in Canada. They don’t. Have it in Algeria. They don’t have it in Sweden. They don’t have it in Japan. They don’t have it in the UK. That’s a verafiable fact. Nor is the right to self preservate yourself from any threat including a tyrannical government. Also here’s how the gun buy back didn’t decrease the crime rate in Australia either. https://winteryknight.com/2017/10/06/did-australias-ban-on-guns-lower-violent-crime-rates-and-lower-suicide-rates-2/ You keep saying it’s sad that people are killed by gun violence. What disgusts me is that you’re exposing more people to be r4ped. Assaulted. Robbed and Murdered. Edited by Mc Esse, Mar 5 2018, 07:17 PM.
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| + Steve | Mar 5 2018, 10:02 PM Post #75 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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And it hasn't protected anyone from anything for like 200 years, it's a pretty big "what if"
Yes because the government is pure evil and will just start executing people over that. If you're a responsible gun owner you'd keep your guns, the only reason to fear having them taken away is knowing you don't use them properly.
So that everyone knows what weaponry is kicking around and what they're doing with it, so that it's another barrier to getting a gun which means anyone who isn't properly committed won't get one, which means less people have them and there's less chance of people going nuts and shooting their family or the local school. And that's a bad thing because of some huge unrealistic "what if" scenario.
This is irrelevant, you've mentioned that word a lot. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's properly enforced by the people who are meant to follow said law. All these young people getting guns mostly have them through legal purchase, a gun store owner should actually check someone's age and better than that be a decent judge of character. I do wonder how many people walk in gun stores clearly imbalanced but get given guns anyway and go shoot their wife or whatever.
Again, hardly counts when frequent terrorist attacks are carried out in the likes of London and I'm pretty sure places like Detroit are hardly cutsey cul-de-sac's compared to London. Huge amount of crime in London yeah but that's just one capital city. And again Europe has double the population of the US but nowhere near the crime rate even with this infestation of terrorists.
No idea what you're talking about there unless you meant 1996 that's the only date I'm seeing in this section: "In Australia, for example, four mass shootings occurred between 1987 and 1996. After those incidents, public opinion turned against gun ownership and Parliament passed stricter gun laws. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since." Which is referencing history not statistics so yeah not sure what your point was there, the surveys don't go back that far?
Because that info is 3 years out of date and much has changed then, they even stipulated that it's obviously higher because of that one a***** a few years back. Also, it is a false narrative because since when were we talking about death rate versus frequency? Norway doesn't have mass shootings nearly every day, Europe as a whole which again has over double the population and currently has many terrorists residing in it, also has less frequent shootings than the US. There's a pretty obvious reason why.
I trust you have some citations to go with that. What is the point in being armed anyway, virtually every countries army could destroy their citizens. If you wanted to defend your home from people who aren't even trying to kill you you're signing your death warrant.
Yeah no, that's just not true. America isn't the only place with free speech, that's a ridiculous claim. And I mean, go say that you're going to bomb a school on Twitter you'll have a knock on your door soon enough, there's your free speech. Why not take a stroll to the White House and shout "Allahu Akbar" The US does not have some sort of special rule there where you can do whatever you want, the whole "Land of the free" thing is kind of a joke.
"It doesn't fix absolutely everything therefore it doesn't work" Nobody ever said doing anything about guns instantly fixes things, of course it doesn't, criminals always exist...so why should they be better and better armed? I don't know about you but I'd much rather be sexually assaulted than shot. Or generally attacked by someone without a gun, at least I can fight back or run away. This argument makes no sense because guns are still far more dangerous and your guns are barely going to get a chance to save you against someone who's already planned to attack you. Even if you have a minigun in the back seat if someone walks up to your car to hijack it, you're f***ed. They already have a gun pointed at you, good luck getting out of that. Guns don't offer some sort of mystical protection, they just make criminals more dangerous and they're obviously going to make sure to be armed if there's a 99% chance the house they're about to rob has a gun in it. As said before why does everything have to end in a life or death gun battle? Would you really shoot someone who took your nearly empty wallet or who had stolen a games console and was running down the street? Is the price of life really that damn small that it's totally fine to just blow someone away over that? America has a pretty psychotic attachment to guns and murder. |
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to your cult-like belief there.
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