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| Mr Boo (Super) vs Base/SSJ Vegetto | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 25 2018, 11:48 PM (1,015 Views) | |
| StrenuousSpider | Jan 29 2018, 10:32 PM Post #16 |
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Because it shows or implies goku > gotenks and gohan which is directly shown later but you choose to ignore that. they are supposed to have people who are 400 to 800x stronger then him yet its a big deal goku lost so easily. But not made as big of deal that gotenks and gohan lost or the whole z fighters in general. All it shows is at the point before god power up goku has surpassed gotenks. Goku gets stronger afterwards as shown in Rof when 1st form freiza is to much for everyone. And he needs his final form to fight goku thats freiza getting 227x stronger going off his power ups from Z. So in turn if goku is above gotenks lets say 2x well goku now is 454x gotenks which is way beyond vegito and thats still in base. And now i refer you to the wolf stuff where buu totally outclasses base goku who at this point is dozens of dozens of times stronger then his RoF self. In turn making buu stronger then vegito by a huge margin. And even if you ignore the BoG stuff the RoF stuff shows how much stronger he is to the rest of them in base. Edited by StrenuousSpider, Jan 29 2018, 10:34 PM.
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| superperfectnerd | Jan 30 2018, 12:26 AM Post #17 |
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How can Mr Boo be any stronger than he was in the Boo arc when it's stated training is a new thing for him and upon doing it he gets a buff body after two hours? If Boo had been getting stronger before then him training wouldn't be some new thing Mr Satan has never seen before and he'd already have his fighting body. Boo beats base Vegetto but gets stomped by Super Vegetto. |
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| StrenuousSpider | Jan 30 2018, 12:40 AM Post #18 |
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Like i said they have powered him up there is no rhyme or reason for alot of the power ups in toei made storys super is not the exception because it is canon. This is something toei has done constantly. Just look at the anime vs manga it terms of power. 17 comes to mind right away. Again the BoG, RoF, and basil fights prove that buu has gotten stronger before buu even trained. No matter how much people want to say he cant be stronger because training was new to him it means nothing to whats been shown. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jan 30 2018, 12:42 AM Post #19 |
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How is he stronger then? Boo inexplicably being stronger is no different to Goku inexplicably being weaker. Why is your assertion the correct one? You can either say Boo is much, much stronger for no reason and also every single fighter in this tournament is god tier despite universe 7 having no mortals at god tier just a few in universe months ago and Boohan would be stomped by Roshi. Or you can say base Goku is no longer above ssj3 Gotenks. Both would change what has previously been implied. Going by the most recent feats it's, base Goku < Basil < super Basil < Boo (unchanged from his fight against Kid Boo) < Fit Boo Edited by superperfectnerd, Jan 30 2018, 12:49 AM.
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| StrenuousSpider | Jan 30 2018, 01:26 AM Post #20 |
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Why mine is the right. Because we have evidence for buu being made stronger and not the other way around. We have specific statements of goku being ssjg level in base and that has not been said to have changed. In fact he is said and or shown to be constantly getting stronger. So you cant say he has gotten weaker as the story explicitly says others wise in both anime and manga(exception to god ki) on more then one occasion unlike buu. No matter what way you look at it if goku has or has not absorbed God ki buu has been shown to be stronger. Im not going to ignore whats constantly said and shown to fit this head canon or fan that its all been retcond. I dont think even toei is going to undermine a giant chunk of the same series by making goku get weaker and in turn makes BoG RoF and U6T worthless. Id rather take whats been shown and have everyone god teir then believe that RoF Blue goku would utterly smash jiren without having to blink. Also can you tell me where this statement that buu never trained before is coming from ive watched it twice and it dose not say anything like that. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jan 30 2018, 01:54 AM Post #21 |
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"He got super fit" implying before he was out of shape/has never been in shape. You can't be out of shape but still getting stronger, that'd be like Gohan being stronger against Dabra than he was against Cell even though he's stated to be 'out of shape'. And his physical appearance, Boo is suddenly slim after 2 hours of training, if he'd done that regularly to get stronger, then he'd already be slim. Boo was unchanged before that scene. I don't think Toei/the writers are even aware of the scaling problems here, so there's no point in arguing. I think Goku having absorbed god ki is as water tight as Beerus saying he was using 70% or the 6/10/15 scale... pointless when later arcs change the power scale. My explanation is simply that there were 2 bases but Goku and Vegeta later realised they needed to switch back to their regular base forms in order to get the most out of training. It's easier to train a lower form than it is to be at ssjg level and still find a challenge. Hence the return of their golden haired forms. But if you'd rather see Roshi above Boohan then be my guest. It destroys my ability to suspend my disbelief to have a retired regular human above the greatest terror to universe 7 powered up with all the hidden potential of Gohan taken beyond his limits. It's just nonsense. Edited by superperfectnerd, Jan 30 2018, 01:56 AM.
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| StrenuousSpider | Jan 30 2018, 02:01 AM Post #22 |
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I mean i like that theory. And i agree that there are far to many power scale problems. But this one i dont see as much of a problem outside of how strong thry made him. I dont take him saying buu was out of shape as him at ot ever getting stronger or training as obviously just a few hours later buu is huge again so nothing says he could not have trained on his own and got fat again shortly afterwards in past. Or never trained that hard before as satan said hes basically has never been this pumped up in a way of speaking. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jan 30 2018, 02:26 AM Post #23 |
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At one time the base saiyans were above Piccolo based on them not needing ssj for a tournament involving 18 and Piccolo, then Beerus said base Goku couldn't handle Freeza at the start of Super. This is the same situation. |
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| StrenuousSpider | Jan 30 2018, 02:45 PM Post #24 |
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This is far from the same situation. Buu being stronger is nothing more then him being stronger ad this line everyone kept useing did not exist so it dose not even contradict anything. While the two lines you mention contradict alot. Kids needing ssj against 18. Piccolo being the dominant one inside buu when it was him and the kids. These are things that have been shown which contradict whats been said. While nothing contradicts buu getting stronger what so ever. No statements say it no showings show it. All we have is showings of buu which make him stronger then he used to be by a huge margin. As for the beerus statement it is also contradicted by alot or in other words a whole series and even its own. Goku barley strong enough in ssj to beat freiza yet trunks killed him easily and goku beat trunks easily so on so fourth. Or what about it making supreme kai stronger then ssj goku which in BoSuper is strong enough to go after kid buu. Or that in that same training he one shot freiza and even cell as base if i remember correctly. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jan 30 2018, 03:14 PM Post #25 |
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You're highlighting my point by giving me a load of other statements/feats which have later been contradicted. My point is that Goku being god tier in base because of earlier implications is as solid as base saiyans being above Piccolo because of earlier implications. It's not important when later feats/implications imply differently. You just have to interpret it how you want I guess because the writers aren't making it easy and I don't think are massively thinking scaling through to be honest. |
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| Notaka | Jan 30 2018, 03:23 PM Post #26 |
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Always Wright
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Mr Buu wins all rounds. 1.You have Goku stating that Vegito isn't strong enough to beat Beerus and when he transforms into SSJG, he says he can't believe that power which means SSJG > SSJ Vegito(maybe even SSJ3, but since he never transformed beyond SSJ, I'm gonna say SSJG is superior to SSJ Vegito). 2.RoF Goku is stated to be stronger than SSJG BoG Goku because Beerus mentions that he has merged with it's power, plus the training he did at Beerus' place. And it hasn't been disproved, First form Frieza smashes SSJ Gohan and his final form is weaker than base Goku. if one was to scale from z, the difference between his first form and his last form is at least 226, maybe even more given his training. 3.The infamous copy Vegeta arc. You can't say it's filler just because it takes between two major arcs, because filler is content that's non-canon, or that isn't present in the original source.Super's anime is the original content, because the manga was created after. You have Copy Vegeta smacking Gotenks around, Lowballing; Someone with Ultimate Gohan powerlevel could do that(Realistically, I have Copy Vegeta/Base Goku around Buuhan's level). Keep in mind Ultimate Gohan is probably a few times base Vegito's power. I personally have Gohan around 5-10 of Base Vegito, that makes SSJ Vegito around 5 to 10 times stronger than Ultimate Gohan which isn't too farfetched. Let's say Gohan is five times as strong as Base Vegito, thus Copy Vegeta/Base Goku is worth 5 vegitos: Base Vegito:1 Base Goku(potaufeu arc):5 4. You have Goku getting around 10x stronger after the black arc, because he can now rival Hit in base SSJB whereas he needed kaioken x10 to do so. Which means it would make Base ToP Goku as strong as Z SSJ Vegito. Buu is even stronger(though I'm not sure, wasn't Goku also suppressed ?). It's illogical, It's stupid but it's what it is. Also, 3 and 4 are made by disregarding Beerus comment about Goku obtaining Super Saiyan God power, meaning that Base Goku isn't as strong as SSJG. If I were to take them; I have RoF Base Goku finger flicking SSJ Vegito. Edited by Notaka, Jan 30 2018, 03:24 PM.
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![]() "My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig! ![]() | |
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| StrenuousSpider | Jan 30 2018, 04:15 PM Post #27 |
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Nothing what si ever says goku has gotten weaker nothing has said two base is real. Nothing said buu never trained. Nothing has said anything has been retcond. Goku is stated to be stronger the BoG god on more then one occasion that has not changed. Which means you have to scale everyone up not down so im not highlighting your point. As your points have actual showings and statements that say otherwise. While like i said above nothing has ever said that goku is weaker, buu never trained, and nothing from anyone official has said there is two base. Tho i believe two base fixes alot of power problems it just a theory based on the name of Ssj blue. Edited by StrenuousSpider, Jan 30 2018, 04:22 PM.
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| StrenuousSpider | Jan 30 2018, 04:18 PM Post #28 |
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Right regardless if you have him absorbing god ki or not buu has gotten stronger along with everyone else. And i agree with you that it is stupid but like you said it is what it is. |
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