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Yakon vs Android #17
Topic Started: Jan 22 2018, 03:39 PM (724 Views)
superperfectnerd
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ahill1
Jan 23 2018, 10:27 PM
EMIYA
Jan 23 2018, 12:14 AM
I think there's indirect evidence that the amplification for Super Saiyan is not as large as it was in the Freeza Arc. It may have even been smaller even before the Boo Arc came around. We know it's 50x during Freeza because it numerically has to be but once numbers stopped being a thing, anything goes. However as long as the gaps between Piccolo, the Saiyans, Gohan and all that remain as relatively vague as they do, that 50x still works, even if it seems outlandish in size.

Well, if you assume that as soon as Goku transformed into a SSJ to lighten up the lace in his fight against Yakon he was at full power, then that can 'maybe' serve as evidence that the SSJ multiplier for the Boo saga shrunk down to around 4x (since Goku ssj was read as 3,000 where Yakon had 800 kiri)...

But then probably not, since you are in the SSJ camp, and if you assume Goku was at full power there then it'd work as a direct evidence for Dabura being way stronger than Goku SSJ, considering he did read such power in the Kiri meter and yet was fully confident that he'd defeat not only Goku, but everyone else, when they could potentially be as strong as Goku...


To say nothing of 50x, Gohan in the Cell Games being many times stronger than his father is really, really overblown, considering that upon fighting Cell, whose suppressed power was described as just "one or two steps above him", Goku was still apparently counting on Gohan's enraged powers as the key to defeat Perfect Cell, when he himself wasn't even sure whether Cell displayed all of his power in their bout:


Goku: “I don’t know about Cell, but I was going all-out. So in other words, to you it felt like I was holding back?”


So, that'd mean Gohan isn't considerably stronger than the Cell who Goku fought, let alone many times stronger, otherwise there'd make no sense for Goku to rely on Gohan's dormant/enraged powers to deal with Cell... his normal, SSJ power would be already enough for such.
Exactly, plus Cell was excited to fight Goku, why would he be excited if he's over ten to fifty times stronger than Goku himself?

Fpssj Goku <<<< fpssj Gohan (fifty times Goku without knowing it) < perfect Cell

Plus all the gaps seem minor and everyone hitting their ceilings in this arc, if Gohan can be fifty times his dad then why opt to not use the ROSAT for the whole two years and get Gohan even stronger by far? Ssj2 is only a two times boost and for that to be a big game changer at this pont then everyone has to be relatively close together.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Cell already knows he's far more powerful than Goku, all he has to do is just lower himself down to his level. When Gohan comes up with, in this scenario, a 50x or hell even higher power level, 100x, 500x, etc. Cell can just power up then as we know he's been holding back and then fight Gohan. The notion is that no matter how outlandish it is, as long as the scenario is vague enough, it can happen.

Goku was counting on Gohan's rage. He knew that even if Gohan was 50x stronger than him, he'd have no chance against Cell and needed his rage? As I said, it doesn't matter how outlandish it is as long as the scenario remains vague enough.

You can't just say that because the numbers are too big, it can't work. You got to give me statements and points that say it can't happen.

Cell was 1-2 steps a head of Goku and even after being severely weakened, was willing to give him a Senzu and continue fighting.

Cell took a Senzu, powered up and couldn't even hit Gohan until he used his true speed and even afterwards, couldn't even hurt the kid.

Give me one statement that says Gohan can't be 50x stronger here? Cell was already made a note that Gohan was stronger and admitted it himself that Goku wasn't entirely bluffing. He eats a Senzu and seems to power up so we can easily make the argument that Cell is stronger than he was against Goku but still can't touch or hurt Gohan.

There's no point in using a high percentage since lower ones work just as well, but tell me why it can't happen? Now mind you, this is for the Cell games. The amplification for the Boo Arc doesn't need to be the same. The fact that it seems to be lower, gives you a chance to lower it down in the Cell Games as well.

So the main question is, what says Gohan CAN'T be 50x stronger or really any number of times stronger?
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superperfectnerd
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Nothing outright states it but I don't think any ssj has been fifty times stronger (an entire ssj transformation) above another ssj and logic still applies, whether there is or isn't a solid statement to back something up. The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim and I'm aware that works both ways. My proof is that Gohan didn't realise he was 50 times stronger than his father after sparring with him continuously for almost a year. I don't think that's likely. Goku can overcome a small gap with his skill, so keeping Gohan in the dark would be easier then and Gohan would just think his dad doesn't even need his full power to match him but 50 times? And remember assj Vegeta manages to stun Cell somewhat, it isn't a lapse in concentration that allows Gohan to win that, Vegeta actually inflicts a level of discomfort which stops Cell's full power.

Assj Vegeta < fpssj Goku <<<<<<X50<<<<<< fpssj Gohan < Perfect Cell <X2< ssj2 Gohan = Super Perfect Cell

and yet Vegeta can do something to Cell with his max power level raised blasting at Gohan?
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+ Pyrus
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Base Goku >~< #16, bare minimum for me considering Base Goten/Trunks ~ #18 bare minimum in my book too.

Yakon strips #17 down to his skivvies, drapes him in special gravy, and then consumes him slowly.
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Notaka
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Always Wright

Firm believer of Frieza > Base Saiyans here. Yakon gets murdered.

Plus he has 800 kili, and according to a V-jump issue a kili is 50,000 in scouter units, which would make Yakon have a powerlevel of 40,000,000. He gets beaten by 50% Frieza, and his powerlevel is more or less a tenth of 17's.
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