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Why do you continue to eat meat?
Topic Started: Jan 15 2018, 05:40 PM (2,612 Views)
+ Emmeth
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I think there's no blueprint on whether eating meat or being a vegetarian is healthier. You can cite sources for both sides and they will both have good and bad reasons.

I believe humans need meat to survive, I don't think we were meant to be herbivores. Why was our instinct back in the neanderthal days to hunt animals? Probably because leaves and berries weren't enough.
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Emmeth
Jan 16 2018, 07:42 AM
I believe humans need meat to survive, I don't think we were meant to be herbivores. Why was our instinct back in the neanderthal days to hunt animals? Probably because leaves and berries weren't enough.
Yeah that's a good point, it's not like it happened by accident or that we just forced ourselves to eat meat for thousands of years until we adapted, we just could anyway.

Why did it come to that eventuality if not because it was our instinct to eat meat?


You can argue all day abut how these days we don't need to kill animals to survive any more but it still all boils down to the subjective preference of agreeing or not agreeing with that, you can't tell me I'm a bad person for eating meat when I can look out my window and watch the neighbours cat tossing around a mouse that's still alive, then wandering off to let it bleed out only for the other cat to come eat it.

Killing is the normal order of the world, if you don't like it don't partake. You can't claim to be an objectively "better" person because you don't like death and avoid it, that's you.
Individuality is what makes people great, parading about over how much better your way is doesn't make it so.
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Emmeth
Jan 16 2018, 07:42 AM
I think there's no blueprint on whether eating meat or being a vegetarian is healthier. You can cite sources for both sides and they will both have good and bad reasons.

I believe humans need meat to survive, I don't think we were meant to be herbivores. Why was our instinct back in the neanderthal days to hunt animals? Probably because leaves and berries weren't enough.

I don’t see many peer-reviewed studies claiming that a meat-based diet is healthier.

Humans clearly don’t need meat to survive or every vegetarian and vegan on this planet would die at an early age instead of living well into old age. Veganism prevents certain diseases. Why would that be the case if we need meat to survive? Humans turned to eating meat because eating berries wasn’t enough, but now we have agriculture. We have grocery stores, and a plethora of options. Appealing to nature and tradition doesn’t work in this case.

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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

I never said it was healthier, but there's something in meat humans need.

https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health

This is what I'm talking about though; While most people plead preference, some people could argue over whether humans need meat or not. It's probably true that humans needed meat more back in the day and that in today's society you can find substitute nourishment to simply survive, but to build a strong body you definitely need meat from cows in particular. At least that's part of ongoing myths.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Meats still provide substantial sources of nutrition while simultaneously giving us pleasure, again the taste that makes it worth having. Our bodies were designed to be omnivores, partaking in both the consumption of meat and vegetables. The shape of our teeth, our digestive system, the fact that it does provide benefits for us. There's the protein, Omega 3 Fatty Acids in fish, etc.

The human biology simply is not designed to eat a non-meat diet (or even All-Meat Diets) so no matter how beneficial one things is specifically over the other, if our bodies are not designed for it, there's no point. There's no point feeding the lion a no-meat diet because their biology does not accept it. The same is with us, we are not designed to eat so specifically.

Come years into the future and humanity has evolved, this may change but right now, our bodies indicate we need a plethora of different foods to survive.
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Emmeth
Jan 16 2018, 01:28 PM
I never said it was healthier, but there's something in meat humans need.

https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health

This is what I'm talking about though; While most people plead preference, some people could argue over whether humans need meat or not. It's probably true that humans needed meat more back in the day and that in today's society you can find substitute nourishment to simply survive, but to build a strong body you definitely need meat from cows in particular. At least that's part of ongoing myths.
We were "created" that way? I'm inclined not to believe that article based on that alone.

The links I provided are for peer-reviewed, scholarly sources that say otherwise. Kadya Araki's article on breakingmuscle.com is far from scholarly or peer-reviewed, and you're exactly right--it is a myth.

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Meats still provide substantial sources of nutrition while simultaneously giving us pleasure, again the taste that makes it worth having. Our bodies were designed to be omnivores, partaking in both the consumption of meat and vegetables. The shape of our teeth, our digestive system, the fact that it does provide benefits for us. There's the protein, Omega 3 Fatty Acids in fish, etc.

We are opportunistic eaters, meaning we will eat anything that our bodies can digest. Plenty of other animals are opportunistic eaters, too. Chimps, apes, even deer. Feed meat to deer, and it will eat it. That obviously doesn't mean that meat is good for the deer. Omega 3's can be found in plenty of vegan foods. Nuts, for example, or flax/hemp seed. I get plenty of it.

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The human biology simply is not designed to eat a non-meat diet (or even All-Meat Diets) so no matter how beneficial one things is specifically over the other, if our bodies are not designed for it, there's no point. There's no point feeding the lion a no-meat diet because their biology does not accept it. The same is with us, we are not designed to eat so specifically.

Then what do you have to say about what was posted in the OP? Do you mean to argue against national organizations that exist solely to study nutrition and the human body? Lions are carnivores, meaning they do need meat to survive. Humans are omnivores, meaning they don't need meat to survive.

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Come years into the future and humanity has evolved, this may change but right now, our bodies indicate we need a plethora of different foods to survive.

The evidence clearly says otherwise, but you're free to ignore the evidence if you want. Ignorance is bliss.

We need a plethora of different foods to remain healthy, but meat is not one of them.
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Jan 16 2018, 02:29 PM.
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

My point is that we could argue about that for an eternity. There are studies, but no proof and there never will be.
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Emmeth
Jan 16 2018, 02:48 PM
My point is that we could argue about that for an eternity. There are studies, but no proof and there never will be.
How do you define proof then? The proof is there in spades.

This isn't aimed at you, but I'm curious how personal pleasure justifies anything. Just because something is pleasurable doesn't make it morally justified or rational. Where do we draw the line on "pleasure" exactly?
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Jan 16 2018, 01:08 PM
Humans clearly don’t need meat to survive or every vegetarian and vegan on this planet would die at an early age instead of living well into old age.
But doesn't this extend in the other direction too...?

Why don't people who almost exclusively eat meat die at a very young age? Discounting people who eat excessive amounts.

I know a woman who has never eaten any vegetable that isn't a potato(usually in the form of chips), she exists on meat pies and whatnot. Utterly despises veg.
She's 90 this month I believe.

Surely if meat was so bad for us, that kind of thing would have to be impossible.


All information I see points to a balanced diet being healthiest. If meat was so bad for us we wouldn't get anything from it but we do.
Most diseases and such caused by meat are from having too much of it, which applies to any consumable really. If you ate an obscene amount of cucumbers and other vegetables a day, the water content in your body would get super dangerous super fast and if you didn't stop you would die.


Moderation is key, if anything else was true we'd be seeing plenty of 130 year old vegetarians that are abnormally healthy compared to everyone else but vegans and vegetarians are just as mortal as the rest of us.

Any statistics that say otherwise are a bit skewed because anyone who decides to go vegan/vegetarian has obviously decided to care about their health anyway, versus people who make ten trips to McDonalds a week and haven't seen their toes in the shower for 15 years.
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

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Jan 16 2018, 02:53 PM
Emmeth
Jan 16 2018, 02:48 PM
My point is that we could argue about that for an eternity. There are studies, but no proof and there never will be.
How do you define proof then? The proof is there in spades.

This isn't aimed at you, but I'm curious how personal pleasure justifies anything. Just because something is pleasurable doesn't make it morally justified or rational. Where do we draw the line on "pleasure" exactly?
I'm sure you can live a fine life not eating any meat, but if you want to have a strong body you need more than vegetables and fruit.

It comes down to how humans were designed and I don't think we were created as herbivores, nor as carnivores. Emiya probably said it best, we are omnivores; We were meant to eat anything and it's not a question of morality.
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Quote:
 
Why don't people who almost exclusively eat meat die at a very young age? Discounting people who eat excessive amounts.

I know a woman who has never eaten any vegetable that isn't a potato(usually in the form of chips), she exists on meat pies and whatnot. Utterly despises veg.
She's 90 this month I believe.

Why don't people who almost exclusively eat cake die at a very young age? Why don't people who smoke every day die at a young age? I have an uncle who smokes every day and eats cake, and he's 91 this year! <-- See what I did there?


Quote:
 
Surely if meat was so bad for us, that kind of thing would have to be impossible.

Surely if smoking was so bad for us, this kind of thing would be impossible! <-- See what I did there?

Now that I've shown you why your points are wrong, I'll try my best to explain it to you. The consumption of meat leads to higher levels of serum cholesterol, which clogs arteries. This is what causes heart disease. The consumption of meat has also been linked to an increased risk for certain types of cancers. (Source can be found in OP.) I will attempt to dig it up sometime today, but there was a study performed on the bodies of dead soldiers (aged 20-29 I believe), and all of them were already showing signs of severely clogged arteries.

Personal anecdotes aren't really valid forms of argumentation, but my cholesterol was exceptionally high before I switched to a plant-based diet. "LDL cholesterol levels should be less than 100 mg/dL. Levels of 100 to 129 mg/dL are acceptable for people with no health issues but may be of more concern for those with heart disease or heart disease risk factors. A reading of 130 to 159 mg/dL is borderline high and 160 to 189 mg/dL is high."

Studies show that most people are already reaching high levels of cholesterol and clogged arteries by the time they're in their early 20's, yet plant-based diets actually lower cholesterol. What could be the cause of that, do you think? What food items are vegans removing when they switch to veganism? Meat and animal products, foods which are known to raise cholesterol levels.

Not every Sally, Bill, and Bob are going to die by 50 from eating meat. That isn't how it works. But I can bet my a*** that Silly, Bill, and Bob all have disgustingly clogged arteries and are at higher risk for heart disease than a vegan.

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All information I see points to a balanced diet being healthiest. If meat was so bad for us we wouldn't get anything from it but we do.

If eggs are so bad for us we wouldn't get anything from it, but we do. <-- Eggs have ungodly amounts of cholesterol, and doctors are no longer recommending them for daily consumption.

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Most diseases and such caused by meat are from having too much of it, which applies to any consumable really. If you ate an obscene amount of cucumbers and other vegetables a day, the water content in your body would get super dangerous super fast and if you didn't stop you would die.

Erm... what?


Quote:
 
Moderation is key, if anything else was true we'd be seeing plenty of 130 year old vegetarians that are abnormally healthy compared to everyone else but vegans and vegetarians are just as mortal as the rest of us.

We can't live to be 130 years old. We do have a life span, after all. This is fallacious.


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I'm sure you can live a fine life not eating any meat, but if you want to have a strong body you need more than vegetables and fruit.

Vegetarians and vegans don't just eat vegetables and fruit. Do you know this, or are you just making a poor argument?

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It comes down to how humans were designed and I don't think we were created as herbivores, nor as carnivores. Emiya probably said it best, we are omnivores; We were meant to eat anything and it's not a question of morality.

I didn't know you believed in God.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

If meat is so bad, why do people eat it?
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EMIYA
Jan 16 2018, 04:21 PM
If meat is so bad, why do people eat it?
If smoking is so bad, why do people do it?
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

well, since you can't even properly answer the question to your own topic, I guess there's no reason to keep it. Your topic will now be closed and let me give you some fair advise. The next time you created such a topic, you better use your words more properly and you will not keep denying people's valid reasons, especially when they are basic opinions. Such as the fact that people eat meat because they like it.

Although once you brought this random bit of mess out.

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I didn't know you believed in God.


Your topic was done. Consider this your one verbal warning. This is supposed to be the Deep Discussion but instead you clearly just wish to show your arrogance.
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