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Why do you continue to eat meat?
Topic Started: Jan 15 2018, 05:40 PM (2,611 Views)
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Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

* It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.

Dietitians of Canada

* A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.

The British National Health Service

* With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.

The British Nutrition Foundation

* A well-planned, balanced vegetarian or vegan diet can be nutritionally adequate ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range.

The Dietitians Association of Australia

* Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. With good planning, those following a vegan diet can cover all their nutrient bases, but there are some extra things to consider.

The United States Department of Agriculture

* Vegetarian diets (see context) can meet all the recommendations for nutrients. The key is to consume a variety of foods and the right amount of foods to meet your calorie needs. Follow the food group recommendations for your age, sex, and activity level to get the right amount of food and the variety of foods needed for nutrient adequacy. Nutrients that vegetarians may need to focus on include protein, iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12.

The National Health and Medical Research Council

* Appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthy and nutritionally adequate. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the lifecycle. Those following a strict vegetarian or vegan diet can meet nutrient requirements as long as energy needs are met and an appropriate variety of plant foods are eaten throughout the day

The Mayo Clinic

* A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.

The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada

* Vegetarian diets (see context) can provide all the nutrients you need at any age, as well as some additional health benefits.

Harvard Medical School

* Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.

British Dietetic Association

* Well planned vegetarian diets (see context) can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.


Other Sources:

Low fat whole foods vegan diet reverses CAD: http://dresselstyn.com/JFP_06307_Article1.pdf

Full position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics on vegetarianism and veganism: http://www.eatrightpro.org/~/media/eatrightpro%20files/practice/position%20and%20practice%20papers/position%20papers/vegetarian-diet.ashx

Affect of Veganism on Serum Cholesterol levels: https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/75/9/683/4062197

Rheumatoid arthritis treated with vegetarian diets: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/594s.long

General health effects of vegan diets: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/pdf/nutrients-06-02131.pdf




Knowing all of this, why do you think you continue to eat meat despite it being less healthy and less ethical? No "but bacon tho" or "it tastes good" arguments please. I want to have a serious discussion about this if possible.

EDIT: I'm not sure what's stretching the page out. Let me know if you do, and I'll fix it.
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Jan 15 2018, 05:43 PM.
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I just happen to crave it.


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I think it's probably just the convenience of it. It's hard as is to figure out where you want to go out to eat. Being vegan would make it that much harder

Eventually I'd like to cut red meat out of my diet and only eat fish and sometimes chicken
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jan 15 2018, 06:04 PM.
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Ssj3vegito96
Jan 15 2018, 06:04 PM
I think it's probably just the convenience of it. It's hard as is to figure out where you want to go out to eat. Being vegan would make it that much harder

Eventually I'd like to cut red meat out of my diet and only eat fish and sometimes chicken
It becomes a lot easier if you take it slowly. If cutting out meat is difficult for you, trying cutting out red meat first, then white meat, then dairy and egg. The process can be as gradual as you need it to be.

Looking into veganism/vegetarianism more is also a huge motivator (the health benefits, the negative effects of meat, how the meat & dairy industries are run, the ethical arguments in favor of veganism, etc.)
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A common argument is the low affordability of vegan diets but I'm not sure how valid it is.
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TheDoc
Jan 15 2018, 06:20 PM
A common argument is the low affordability of vegan diets but I'm not sure how valid it is.
I'd say very, here in the UK at least.

Everything in the Free From sections of supermarkets is usually at least twice the price.
I got a pack of four flapjacks for £1.23 the other day on sale, normally they'd be like £3. For four small flapjacks. That's just some snack too. If you want a vegan pizza or something be prepared to fork out like £4 for something that tastes and feels like polystyrene.

The only way you can have a cheap meat free diet is to exclusively eat fresh greens as they are quite cheap, but to make a satisfying and varied diet out of them you need to have a lot of time, occasionally some skill and...well obviously to actually like the stuff.


Meat is convenient, plentiful, cheap and delicious.
I fully support a world where we eat less of it because currently there's apparently like half a cow per family per day or something which obviously is an unnecessarily large amount of meat for the populace.

In a world where the carbon footprint of it was drastically reduced and in general so was the consumption I see no reason for the practice to be abolished.
And that's the only logical path we can possibly take because the meat industry is never just going to go "Yeah we're done now bye" unless literally every single person on the planet stopped eating meat or using animal products at all.
Impact will be reduced further and further and at a point the only real argument will be "I think killing is wrong" which is purely personal.



I don't have any real point to make here but recently I wondered, if it's true that the consumption of meat lead to the enlarging of our brains and made us what we are today, is it not possible that going completely meat free could make us devolve over time?
Unless we literally replaced every single protein and such perfectly.
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TheDoc
Jan 15 2018, 06:20 PM
A common argument is the low affordability of vegan diets but I'm not sure how valid it is.
Not very. Legumes, rice, tofu, tempeh, vegetables, fruit--the staples of a common vegan diet--are all low cost compared to meat. Even tofu is significantly less expensive than chicken or beef.

Of course vegan alternatives are going to be more expensive--your "vegan pizzas" and "vegan sausages"--but those are far from necessary.

Meat is actually one of the more expensive foods you can buy.
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It tastes phenomenal, it's convenient, it's easier on my macros, it doesn't taste like a lawnmower's a*****, it doesn't make me feel like puking my intestines out, and it's the only way for my lifestyle. Even if I'm on my deathbed and ordered by a doctor to never touch meat again, I'll die with a steak on my plate. I don't care if every new wave dietician thinks meat is lesser than some vegan lifestyle. Beliefs change all the time, and this will be no different. If greens are great for someone, awesome. Won't be a major part of my life regardless.

That's my bottom line and I'm sticking to it.

Edit: Meat is the second least expensive main item I buy, behind carby stuff like pasta and rice. I can get a 3 or 5 pound pack for like $10 and that'll last me a few days if I want it to, but $10 worth of fruit or veggies would be gone in a couple hours or it'd be bad the next the day. Of course, seafood is expensive as f***, but regular red meats are fine. Maybe I'm just going to the wrong stores or prices in northeastern America are higher for produce.
Edited by Pyrus, Jan 15 2018, 08:48 PM.
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Jan 15 2018, 06:40 PM
TheDoc
Jan 15 2018, 06:20 PM
A common argument is the low affordability of vegan diets but I'm not sure how valid it is.
Not very. Legumes, rice, tofu, tempeh, vegetables, fruit--the staples of a common vegan diet--are all low cost compared to meat. Even tofu is significantly less expensive than chicken or beef.

Of course vegan alternatives are going to be more expensive--your "vegan pizzas" and "vegan sausages"--but those are far from necessary.

Meat is actually one of the more expensive foods you can buy.
Yeah, so you're stuck having to find the time or the skill to cook satisfying meals with basic ingredients, something a lot of people struggle to do. Wouldn't be very satisfying to have the same meals over and over, meat is easy to cook in a huge variety of ways and fills you up for far longer.

Convenient foods are widely necessary for many and vegan ones are very inconvenient due to their price and value for money.
Some of it is shockingly expensive and is quite often disgusting.


I don't find meat expensive at all, I can buy a £1 sausage roll and it'll fill me up for ages whereas a salad or whatever barely feels like I've eaten anything at all unless I consume an unholy amount of potatoes with it. I actually had the option earlier, a £1 sausage roll or a £2.50 salad that's just some pasta and lettuce which is practically just water.
I only a had a third of said sausage roll because it was for my girlfriend, I'm still not hungry and that was hours ago.

Meat and breads keep you going, vegetables you need to be eating very frequently to not feel hungry most of the time if you have an active lifestyle.

And if you're forced to introduce lots of bread in to your diet or to eat lots of potatoes just to not feel hungry, well that's just not going to be healthy.
Edited by Steve, Jan 15 2018, 07:26 PM.
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I'm going to say it anyways, because it tastes good. I'm a picky eater and there's a lot of stuff that's non-animal product food that I just don't like. I have a friend who's vegan and I tried it out for a week, it was a horrible experience honestly. Not all of the food was bad, but I just felt a lot weaker and I craved meat more than ever. In any case, there's nothing morally wrong about eating meat. Not saying that animals aren't mistreated many times. But I'm not going to change my habits and I never will. I've got a lot of respect for people that don't eat meat though, that's some serious dedication and if I could be happy that way then I'd do it too. But I'd be miserable.
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Just pure convenience. I realise that a vegan diet would be way more ethical and much healthier, but when you eat with other meat-eaters daily, it's just so much easier to eat with them instead of going out of my way to adopt a vegan diet. I'll be perfectly honest, I don't care enough to make any changes. Got so many other things on my plate that adding that on top would just be more hassle than it's worth at the moment.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

I guess this is somewhat off topic but one thing I've changed my mind on lately a bit is milk.

That we constantly rape cows and keep them pregnant is kinda f***ed up, killing animals is normal but raping something and forcing it to be pregnant until it dies is very much not.

I still prefer cows milk to it's alternatives but more often than not I buy oat or soy milk these days.
But unlike with vegan meals alternative milks don't even cost more, two pints of Oatley is like £1.19 which is less than some of your fancier filtered milks.


Tofu is about the only thing I'd occasionally opt to replace meat with but it's still uncommon and stupid expensive most of the time, £3 for a block that doesn't go a long way to feeding two people and can be complicated to cook let alone make something that's actually tasty.
Or £3 for 6 bbq pork loins that easily lasts two or three meals that you can effortlessly slap on a grill, turn once or twice and you're done.
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Because I like the taste. I don't care if that's not an argument you'll take, it's pretty much why 90% of meat-eaters eat meat. For me personally, there are very few vegetables that I like. I've tried a bunch and the only ones I really like are carrots, potatoes, and peppers. I can eat peas and lettuce, but I don't like them. Everything else I've tried tastes bad to me. I don't want my diet to be dominated by stuff I either outright don't like, or things I would rather not eat.

Also, because I'm immoral and don't really care enough about what the industry does to animals to want to make a change.
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That we constantly rape cows and keep them pregnant is kinda f***ed up, killing animals is normal but raping something and forcing it to be pregnant until it dies is very much not.

? What makes killing animals "normal" and raping cows "not?"


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For me personally, there are very few vegetables that I like. I've tried a bunch and the only ones I really like are carrots, potatoes, and peppers. I can eat peas and lettuce, but I don't like them. Everything else I've tried tastes bad to me. I don't want my diet to be dominated by stuff I either outright don't like, or things I would rather not eat.

I felt the same way. Hated all vegetables. I still hate most vegetables, and I get by just fine. One day I realized, "You know, I'm not eating vegetables now, so what's the difference?" There's a misconception that vegetarians and vegans predominantly eat vegetables. For some, that may be the case, but for people like me it's most certainly not.

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Also, because I'm immoral and don't really care enough about what the industry does to animals to want to make a change.

That's unfortunate.

If someone were punching you in the face and you asked them to stop, but they replied, "Sorry man, I just don't care," and they kept punching you, is that a response you would accept?

I don't want to hear "but bacon tho," "it tastes good," or "I don't care," not because I'm afraid of those responses, but because I find them to be the most fallacious and illogical. You wouldn't say the same for humans dying, regardless of how unimportant, worthless, or valueless you may see them because "they're human tho."
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I like it too much to not eat it. Meat and potatoes is 99% of my diet.
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