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Is it time to drop the focus from Goku and Vegeta?
Topic Started: Jan 9 2018, 09:02 AM (2,919 Views)
superperfectnerd
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Thy could easily change what was implied but the very first implication was that there is a mortal from another universe stronger than that universe's god of destruction and Jiren is above Belmod.

It is complicated by the fact that Whis said the god he's stronger than beat Beerus in an arm wrestle but if Whis knows that then he'd have been more sure which universe it was by the god he knew beat Beerus in an arm wrestle. Also, according to the manga, Quitella is the god who beat Beerus in an arm wrestle and clearly his universe didn't have a mortal stronger than him. So it all seems a bit messed up right now especially if the gods have recently implied that Goku and Jiren are impressive ut only for other universes.

That line to me though doesn't mean that their universes home stronger mortals, it means that they're saying "if mortals could be this strong, I'd expect them to come from our universes and not these 8", not "these guys are strong but we already have stronger". They might just be surprised that lower level universes have mortals stronger than they do.
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StrenuousSpider
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superperfectnerd
Jan 10 2018, 05:44 AM
Thy could easily change what was implied but the very first implication was that there is a mortal from another universe stronger than that universe's god of destruction and Jiren is above Belmod.

It is complicated by the fact that Whis said the god he's stronger than beat Beerus in an arm wrestle but if Whis knows that then he'd have been more sure which universe it was by the god he knew beat Beerus in an arm wrestle. Also, according to the manga, Quitella is the god who beat Beerus in an arm wrestle and clearly his universe didn't have a mortal stronger than him. So it all seems a bit messed up right now especially if the gods have recently implied that Goku and Jiren are impressive ut only for other universes.

That line to me though doesn't mean that their universes home stronger mortals, it means that they're saying "if mortals could be this strong, I'd expect them to come from our universes and not these 8", not "these guys are strong but we already have stronger". They might just be surprised that lower level universes have mortals stronger than they do.
They said something along the lines that they did not know people this strong existed in the smaller universe which is pretty straightforward that he is saying i thought only the high end universes had fighters of this caliber.

As for the lines about U4 and the mortal being from said universe. Ill agree its a tad bit complicated because the way they worded things. But we were wrong about that and we could be wrong that jiren is the mortal above all gods. He is said to be above 1 god so far in manga and only hinted at in anime. Jiren is far from being confirmed the mortal. As low as being said maybe he is but not with certainty. Like i said before the rumor could be exaggerated or completely false because even whis is not sure if the mortal is something that actually exist. Untill we get solid proof jiren is the mortal that matchs the gods but not the mortal that surpasses the gods.
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superperfectnerd
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It would be fairly odd if there are loads of mortals above gods of destruction though, I know all destroyers were once mortals but I imagine they get some long life hax magic when they're appointed and then get a lot of training for many millennia before the previous god retires. Multiple mortals with mortal lifespans wondering about who are above destroyers kind of flies in the face of what Whis was implying about it being one legendary mortal because it's hard for any mortal to get there in a average lifetime. I mean Hit is 1000 years old and in the manga Belmod is considered young and he became a god 267,974 years ago.

If there a multiple mortals wondering about in these other universes above a destroyer, they'd just be like "yeah no, you're not destroying this planet" and they could f*** with the gods. But these destroyers are just casually mentioning destroyers above Jiren? How have they kept alive/their jobs?
Edited by superperfectnerd, Jan 10 2018, 03:20 PM.
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StrenuousSpider
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superperfectnerd
Jan 10 2018, 03:18 PM
It would be fairly odd if there are loads of mortals above gods of destruction though, I know all destroyers were once mortals but I imagine they get some long life hax magic when they're appointed and then get a lot of training for many millennia before the previous god retires. Multiple mortals with mortal lifespans wondering about who are above destroyers kind of flies in the face of what Whis was implying about it being one legendary mortal because it's hard for any mortal to get there in a average lifetime. I mean Hit is 1000 years old and in the manga Belmod is considered young and he became a god 267,974 years ago.

If there a multiple mortals wondering about in these other universes above a destroyer, they'd just be like "yeah no, you're not destroying this planet" and they could f*** with the gods. But these destroyers are just casually mentioning destroyers above Jiren? How have they kept alive/their jobs?
Well belmod or any other god would just hakai them lol. They have people on UI goku, jiren first fight, and bssj2 kefla level not necessarily above the gods. But that still dose not mean they dont have any at destroyer level like jiren is said to be. And if jiren is the mortal great but its possible that he is not. Matching the gods in power is different from surpassing the gods. There can be 100s of mortals as strong as a destroyer or even close but one that is stronger then them. Jiren wants to get stronger but we dont know why. Unless there is someone stronger then you with malicious intent maybe. But none the less he wants to be stronger for something. And i dont get what someone who is supposed to be above gods want to get stronger for.
Also going back to the other 4 gods. If whis knows about the rumor then dont you think the other angels would know as well. But none in the other 4 universes even show surprise at jiren and UI power and the gods of those 4 dont think he is above all the gods just surprised someone like them exist in snaller universes. I dont see anything solid yet to say if jiren is the mortal or not. Just a bunch of ifs and maybes and vague statements. But i honestly wont be surprised either way. If he is or is not.
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superperfectnerd
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Jiren doesn't want to be stronger, he seeks "that which is beyond strength", Goku misunderstood and thought Jiren meant "I want to be so strong that I'm beyond strong" and Goku said "yippee! Me too!" because he's a moron. Jiren is using his strength to attain something else more noble.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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There are four universes we haven't seen yet so maybe someone is stronger than them
IT'S CHEESE
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Saiyan36
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When Goku and the gang have surpassed the Grand Priest: why can't that mortal be Master Roshi? A little retreat from pension to seek some renewed glory, why not?
Beerus just lost the arm wrestling competition to his other arm in the anime.
Edited by Saiyan36, Jan 10 2018, 07:46 PM.
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StrenuousSpider
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superperfectnerd
Jan 10 2018, 06:02 PM
Jiren doesn't want to be stronger, he seeks "that which is beyond strength", Goku misunderstood and thought Jiren meant "I want to be so strong that I'm beyond strong" and Goku said "yippee! Me too!" because he's a moron. Jiren is using his strength to attain something else more noble.
He still want to get stronger for something. If thar be what lays beyond strength or not there is a reason that we dont know of yet. At least in anime. Hell we only get a slight idea in manga.
Edited by StrenuousSpider, Jan 10 2018, 08:56 PM.
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superperfectnerd
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StrenuousSpider
Jan 10 2018, 08:55 PM
superperfectnerd
Jan 10 2018, 06:02 PM
Jiren doesn't want to be stronger, he seeks "that which is beyond strength", Goku misunderstood and thought Jiren meant "I want to be so strong that I'm beyond strong" and Goku said "yippee! Me too!" because he's a moron. Jiren is using his strength to attain something else more noble.
He still want to get stronger for something. If thar be what lays beyond strength or not there is a reason that we dont know of yet. At least in anime. Hell we only get a slight idea in manga.
No you're misunderstanding I think. Jiren is asking Goku why he's got such a boner for strength, Jiren isn't seeking to get stronger at all, he's already strong, he's happens to be here to fight in this tournament but he wants more that strength, he's essentially saying "why is strength so important to you Goku? I want more out of life than that and look, I'm still stronger than you anyway" he isn't saying he needs to be stronger to get something. If winning this tournament gets him some noble wish then he'll be grateful he was this strong but he isn't desperately seeking more and more power like Goku is. He may train and be strong but he's not obsessed with it.

It's like two gym bros, one says "hey man let's go work out" and the other says "nah I'm going on a date" and the first then says "what about that sweet pump bro, you're arms are looking less vascular than usual" and the second replies "life isn't all about working out bro, I want more than vascular biceps".
Edited by superperfectnerd, Jan 10 2018, 09:09 PM.
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Mike XL
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Dragon Ball is the story of Goku. It would be a bad idea from a business perspective to shift focus away from Goku.
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StrenuousSpider
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superperfectnerd
Jan 10 2018, 09:05 PM
StrenuousSpider
Jan 10 2018, 08:55 PM
superperfectnerd
Jan 10 2018, 06:02 PM
Jiren doesn't want to be stronger, he seeks "that which is beyond strength", Goku misunderstood and thought Jiren meant "I want to be so strong that I'm beyond strong" and Goku said "yippee! Me too!" because he's a moron. Jiren is using his strength to attain something else more noble.
He still want to get stronger for something. If thar be what lays beyond strength or not there is a reason that we dont know of yet. At least in anime. Hell we only get a slight idea in manga.
No you're misunderstanding I think. Jiren is asking Goku why he's got such a boner for strength, Jiren isn't seeking to get stronger at all, he's already strong, he's happens to be here to fight in this tournament but he wants more that strength, he's essentially saying "why is strength so important to you Goku? I want more out of life than that and look, I'm still stronger than you anyway" he isn't saying he needs to be stronger to get something. If winning this tournament gets him some noble wish then he'll be grateful he was this strong but he isn't desperately seeking more and more power like Goku is. He may train and be strong but he's not obsessed with it.

It's like two gym bros, one says "hey man let's go work out" and the other says "nah I'm going on a date" and the first then says "what about that sweet pump bro, you're arms are looking less vascular than usual" and the second replies "life isn't all about working out bro, I want more than vascular biceps".
Im not saying he is obsessed like goku. Yes jiren wants to find that which lays beyond strength but we are lead to believe that getting stronger is the key to that. As goku agrees with him that they both want the same thing and jiren dose not deny that in anyway. So again we do not know why jiren wants to get stronger besides what ever lies beyond it but we dont know what that is in the anime. But we know he wants a wish in manga but again we dont know what that wish is. It so far is answering questions with other questions.
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superperfectnerd
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No Goku is an idiot, Jiren doesn't correct him because what's the point? Goku wouldn't understand. Jiren may not be even talking about anything literal, he's simply questioning Goku's attitude and saying that he personally seeks more than strength, he just also happens to be strong. A wish on the Super Dragon Balls doesn't come because of strength usually, only here by sheer luck does that happen to be the case, whatever Jiren wants it's 'beyond strength' as in nothing to do with it, something more noble.
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StrenuousSpider
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superperfectnerd
Jan 11 2018, 03:44 AM
No Goku is an idiot, Jiren doesn't correct him because what's the point? Goku wouldn't understand. Jiren may not be even talking about anything literal, he's simply questioning Goku's attitude and saying that he personally seeks more than strength, he just also happens to be strong. A wish on the Super Dragon Balls doesn't come because of strength usually, only here by sheer luck does that happen to be the case, whatever Jiren wants it's 'beyond strength' as in nothing to do with it, something more noble.
Beyond strength includes strength. It means to surpass strength. Like if you want what is beyond time you first have to surpass time so regardless he wants to get stronger to find that which lies beyond. And getting stronger is the only way.
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Muyasuki
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Ideally; I'm on board as I've grown tired of the Goku (and sometimes Vegeta) show. I've found the most enjoyable episodes of the arc to be the ones that WEREN'T focused on those two specifically (the standouts that pop out to mind immediately are the Krillin, 17, Roshi and Hit episodes).

I don't mind if they can't fully divest from them but given what we were shown from this arc; there's PLENTY you can do with the other cast members. Throw in Yamcha, Gotenks and maybe Chiaotzu and I'm good to go. Make it a threat that's to numerous for it to just be those two guys. Let the Z fighters truly shine.

...Also, I still want to see the adventures of Goten, Trunks and Marron on 17's island.
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superperfectnerd
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I enjoy when two characters who haven't interacted much in the past are thrown together, like 17 and Gohan in the most recent episode or Roshi and Vegeta earlier in the arc. There's a way to have Goku and Vegeta still in the mix just have them interacting outside their usual comfort zone.
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