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| Willpower | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2018, 05:05 PM (623 Views) | |
| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jan 7 2018, 05:05 PM Post #1 |
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Have you been to the gym consistently and lifted weights or worked out really hard? If you have then you will notice that your mood has a huge impact on how strong you are. Your guts, willpower, and hype will make you stronger and give you the motivation to push more and more. Does it really not make sense that goku and vegeta are able to skyrocket their power level because of their drive? It's not just the plot that allows goku to do things like when he was low on stamina but then busted out of the black hole. He literally said it was because of his guts. After what they've been through and them being saiyans we need to stop trying to find a stagnant power level to put on them. It's pretty clear at this point that their power level depends a lot on how they're feeling Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jan 7 2018, 05:06 PM.
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| Tinny | Jan 7 2018, 05:57 PM Post #2 |
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Has willpower ever really effected power level beyond a specific limit or level? Super is (once again) changing the rules on how power levels work, which is the problem far more than emotions determining strength. Emotions do this all the time in many a magical girl show, but the thing here is... Well Dragon Ball doesn't work like that, it's set stagnant power levels until they're given a power up by the author, the problem here is they're changing the power system in favor of another, and aren't exactly doing it gracefully either, plus well... And to be honest, I find it a little odd that say, Ribrianne or Hit or Kefla all are less determined to save their friends and family than Goku is to... have a good fight? And again it's always had power levels in some form, and only explicitly got into specific numbers them for a few arcs before abandoning them, but I'm sure anyone who's seen the Cell or Buu arcs can tell that the system itself is the same as before, after, and during the time of the explicit power level. They're changing the way Dragon Ball has worked since it's inception, and they're doing it rather clumsily, Goku ain't exactly Sailor Moon and Vegeta isn't no Cure Beat. It does need to change tracks but you can't exactly blame people for wanting Dragon Ball in Dragon Ball, and nor can you really argue it's doing a fantastic job switching to a more shoujo magical girl format. It's like expecting a dragster to make a graceful turn, I'm frankly more surprised it hasn't completely crashed into a tree yet. |
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| lazerbem | Jan 7 2018, 05:59 PM Post #3 |
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Vegeta's pride being a trigger was already a thing in Z, but it's still handled really clumsily. Jiren giving him some mild trash talk is now the last straw? At this rate, the Saiyans might as well just train by screaming insults at each other in a circle so that their pride makes them stronger. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Jan 7 2018, 06:50 PM Post #4 |
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It doesn't matter that they've always used willpower and the same motives to boost their power. By now we have to consider the possibility that they're better at pushing themselves. That isn't unrealistic
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jan 7 2018, 06:50 PM.
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| Bad User | Jan 7 2018, 07:12 PM Post #5 |
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What? Goku gathered the power to kill King Piccolo through a powerful emotion and a will to save everyone. He became the first Super Saiyan ever, because he was heartbroken that his BFF 'definitively' died. Gohan got all of his 'rage boosts' when he felt, well, rage. Like the numerous times his mentor was dead/injured, when Android 16's head got smashed, when Vegeta was badly injured against him etc. Future Trunks got his first SSJ as well, after his mentor died. Vegeta, when he was desperate and hopeless and was on the verge of depression. I definitely prefer adrenaline, cortisol and norepinephrine as premises for getting power-ups, instead of 'feeling giggiddy' in whatever body parts. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jan 7 2018, 07:17 PM Post #6 |
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Izanagi!
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That's not willpower though, that's rage. Often times, uncontrollable rage. That's not what happened here. Vegeta got angry and yelled about pride and then suddenly got a humongous, ridiculously large power-up, it's nothing like the other instances. |
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| Tinny | Jan 7 2018, 07:30 PM Post #7 |
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Boost them by a bit, but never to such a degree (and usually only from Gohan specifically unless you count going Super Saiyan against Freeza, which even then is still unlocking a new form), and unless I missed something about Goku and Vegeta learning to weaponize their emotions in such a way that they couldn't do before, then yes, Dragon Ball Super is changing how the game is played. And it is unrealistic, it goes against everything Dragon Ball has built within it's world, and now it's changing the setting without telling anyone, hoping that by the time people notice it will have gotten into the groove well enough that people won't mind (not that this is a bad idea tbh). The problem here isn't that they're changing or that this isn't realistic, Dragon Ball's 'realism' is such that it is often an opponent to creative or interesting story telling, and this can serve drama a whole lot better in comparison. The issue is it hasn't completed the transition and it's not making it gracefully either, especially considering how concrete it was before hand. I mean, just as an example, how many people still find it stupid that Roshi or Krillin are capable of doing anything against Blueku? But at the same time, Roshi being a creative fighter and using his technique and skill to get one up on normally stronger fighters is a lot more fun than him just getting beat up.
Goku was like that the whole arc, he didn't just feel that way in the final fight. But the first time he was no where near strong enough to finish the job and nearly died in his first fight, he had to improve first. Gohan always had this as an exception, otherwise Vegeta would have wiped the floor with pretty much everyone he lost to, possibly even Freeza and especially Goku, Vegeta never really got more powerful from his rage or his determination or his pride, while for Gohan those were very antithetical to his normal disposition. Edit: Regarding everyone else, as you said, they unlocked new forms, they didn't simply gain more power. Second you are assuming I think Dragon Ball does things well. It does not. At all. It is in many ways antithetical to good story telling and for the most part Dragon Ball is a terrible told story, it's good at that it is transitioning but that does not mean that it is doing it well. Turning is a great feature for a car, that doesn't mean a Dragster is gonna turn well and it doesn't mean Dragon Ball is going to gracefully make the change to a much better but more fluid system simply because it decides it can't keep up static, stagnant power levels. Let me reiterate, this is a good thing to be losing the emphasis on power levels, any good fighting shonen tries to stay away from making them as concrete and physically barring as Dragon Ball. But when you stay as strict as Dragon Ball, you can't simply transition away from mostly set power levels to something fluid like most other anime without making a few mistakes along the way, and Dragon Ball Super is making many mistakes in it's transition to (and I state again) an objectively better system. Also, magical girl anime as a whole is superior to Dragon Ball in every way that can possible matter It's not an insult, DBS did have a really good moment with Trunks defeating Zamasu by basically going full on magical girl. The problem is DBS can't commit to it like it should.
Edited by Tinny, Jan 7 2018, 07:34 PM.
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| Saiyan36 | Jan 7 2018, 08:02 PM Post #8 |
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In a real street fight ... if you put a guy with determination, pumped up muscles and agression against a guy that's really in control of his moves and knows about martial arts ... I already know who is going to wake up the next morning with the most painfull bodyparts. Z was more about training and anger boosts. Hower the power scaling of Z made more sense, Super hower connects with more realistic aspects that really matter in fights, such as selfcontrol. Well, we all know what happens during a fight if you are not in control and you are blinded by your pride ... Is the power output really more efficient when you are pumped like that? I just wanted to point out, sheer strength and willpower aren't going to bring you there in real fights. You need selfcontrol and a clear mind as well, the latter is even more important. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Jan 7 2018, 08:16 PM Post #9 |
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魔王子
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Like people are saying, you can't view this in a vacuum. The problem is that drive hasn't affected one's power to any noticeable degree in the past. If I wanted to play devil's advocate, I could put forward the idea that divine Ki is greatly affected by emotion, but the series doesn't make this clear, so it's bad writing regardless. |
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| superperfectnerd | Jan 8 2018, 02:28 AM Post #10 |
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Because getting stronger was always such a process before. They'd need new training, or a new transformation. Goku couldn't simply will himself to be stronger than Raditz in a two minute fight for example. This arc may feel very long but this tournament is 48 minutes... could Vegeta have powered up to surpass Super Boo in 48 minutes? No. Not at all. Cell wasn't all that far ahead of Goku and Gohan but they stood no chance without Gohan awakening hidden power he'd already shown before, nobody simply said "f*** this I love my world" ad were suddenly stronger than Cell. Vegeta especially is meant to be held back by pride, not powered up through it. Though I can still just attribute his power up to power at the surface and he could indeed still be stronger with a different catalyst. In BOG he gave up his pride and moments later was smacking Beerus around for hurting somebody he loves, seems like conflicting story telling in regards to Vegeta's power. Truth be told in this tournament I'm actually not that bothered about Goku ad Vegeta's strides in power because Whis has many times alluded to them knocking on the door of something new. This isn't faster than usual saiyan adaption, this is Goku and vegeta already so, so close to breaking their limits that they're adapting seemingly faster than usual. Whis has trained them for months and months specifically for this, it's appearing now but it's been months in the making, so it makes sense, they've had a new method to power up in Whis' teachings and this is the true fruit of their labour. Other characters however have no business being this strong and getting stronger still in 48 minutes without fusion, new forms or zenkais. Edited by superperfectnerd, Jan 8 2018, 02:28 AM.
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| Kblo247 | Jan 8 2018, 05:01 AM Post #11 |
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But insults and shade made the Pride Troopers strong Toppo - Aren’t you the second fiddle? (Vegeta) Jiren - Hope you enjoyed your victory, it’s the last you’ll ever see (Goku) Dyspo - Looks like you want to die a second time (Frieza) I mean it’s no coincidence that one is above ss god, one above ss blue, and one above a god of destruction |
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4:54 PM Jul 13
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It's not an insult, DBS did have a really good moment with Trunks defeating Zamasu by basically going full on magical girl. The problem is DBS can't commit to it like it should.


4:54 PM Jul 13