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| is currennt ssjb goku on par with ssjb vegeta again | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 27 2017, 11:24 PM (15,821 Views) | |
| Saiyan36 | Jan 7 2018, 11:07 AM Post #91 |
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They've put on a good show, that's for sure, but now to imply this Blue Vegeta was stronger than Goku's Kaioken 20 times first round ... I have more the impression Jiren likes to troll a few people, and his growing brilliantly in his role as a bully. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jan 7 2018, 01:14 PM Post #92 |
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Izanagi!
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At the very, very least, Vegeta was talking about Goku's Kaioken x 20, so at the bare minimum, Vegeta's around that level of strength. |
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| Saiyan36 | Jan 7 2018, 01:32 PM Post #93 |
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I think there are more feasible explainations than Vegeta returning from the ROSAT so much stronger than Blue Goku (30 times?), such a: - Vegeta getting the first flairs of UI - Jiren letting his guard down and/or Vegeta reading his movements for a moment, just to enlighten the show, but nothing too big really |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jan 7 2018, 02:07 PM Post #94 |
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Izanagi!
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How do you quantify getting the first flairs of UI though? We see him fighting as a SSB, and even if he's inching towards UI, that's still his SSB power, and it's pretty evident that SSB Vegeta > SSB Goku throughout the whole thing. Jiren would have no reason to let his guard down other than to make Vegeta weaker than Goku. |
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| Saiyan36 | Jan 7 2018, 04:18 PM Post #95 |
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Jiren even put up some effort to dodge Goku's KMH or throw back his spirit bomb. That Final Flash, they could have simply let him dodge it or throw it back. They did it rather originally. I must admit. Vegeta is allowed to explode his big load all over Jiren, we see a very vague and rapid shot of Jiren laying down, for the latter to reappear in front of Vegeta, giving him a belly job in the process. This while Blue Goku was laughing his a*** of whilst sparring with Jiren. I thought that was rather funny. Edited by Saiyan36, Jan 7 2018, 04:23 PM.
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Jan 7 2018, 05:24 PM Post #96 |
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The only thing reason given for vegetas performance is that he analyzed jirens movements, not that hes stronger. The only time where it can be reasonably said that ssb vegeta became stronger than ssb goku is when jiren insulted his pride. So i dont know how people are saying that its clear that vegeta is stronger when this isnt stated or said in the show. Before this episode, hes stated by Toei to be no stronger than ssb goku and golden frieza. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jan 7 2018, 07:12 PM Post #97 |
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Izanagi!
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So you didn't see his performance aside from that? He was putting up a better fight against Jiren than Goku did before, and everyone's getting worried/excited about his fighting. The only other instances like that were Kaioken Blue, the Spirit Bomb and Ultra Instinct, not regular Blue, so Vegeta's way past SSB Goku at this point. |
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| Saiyan36 | Jan 7 2018, 08:29 PM Post #98 |
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He has put in a valiant effort and the first signs of a new unlocked potential are basically there. When he dodged Jiren's moves, that was the greatest part of the episode. He has it in him to go beyond, he's just not quite there yet to maintain that level. He's learning and improving. That's the Vegeta that i like to see, to go beyond just pride and anger. I just think this is something that goes beyond regular Blue and wasn't fully there yet at the start of the Tournament. They had the latent potency, Goku has unlocked it during the Tournament and now Vegeta is on the brink of unlocking it during the Tournament. |
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| StrenuousSpider | Jan 7 2018, 09:02 PM Post #99 |
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Whis only said he thinks vegeta is trying to get UI by fighting jiren not that he has even the slightest bit of he technique amping him. Its a baseless speculation that literally has no evidence what so ever to say he was useing some percentage of UI. All vegeta was was blue not UI blue just blue. Its not until next week that he is something other then just blue. |
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Jan 7 2018, 09:17 PM Post #100 |
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he put up a better fight because as stated, he analyzed jirens movements, not because hes stronger. that isnt even implied in the show. fans are just cherrypicking instances that dont mean anything and taking them out of the story given context. it would be like me claiming that ssb goku>>>>>>>>>ssb vegeta because he was able to parry a version of jiren thats stated to be stronger and faster than the one that vegeta fought with his eyes closed while smiling. nothing in the show states or implies that goku doing so is representative of some new level of power, so more likely than not, goku isnt any different than before and it isnt significant. vegeta prior to powering up due to pride is stated to be no stronger than ssb goku and frieza. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jan 7 2018, 09:22 PM Post #101 |
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Izanagi!
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What, because analysis allows you to become much faster and stronger? That implies that Goku was just being an idiot and not focusing on the attacks that Jiren was throwing at him. Knowing how an attack is thrown doesn't magically give you the ability to be able to dodge it. Go ahead and say that then, that's a Goku that's already broken through his limits twice with Ultra Instinct, an argument could be made that he's gotten a lot stronger. The fact is, Vegeta's consistent performance against an opponent who's way stronger than SSB Goku (Pre-UI) is much, much better than Goku's initial performance. If Vegeta's no stronger than regular SSB Goku, why is Belmod and the rest of U11 getting so worried about Jiren when he lands a few hits? Jiren wasn't caught off-guard, he was outplayed. They were legitimately concerned because Vegeta posed the same kind of danger that they were worried about before with Kaioken and the Spirit Bomb. |
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Jan 7 2018, 09:27 PM Post #102 |
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thats the stated reason for why vegeta did so well, so its not my job to justify it. And on top of that jiren was stated to have used more power and speed against goku. that and theres no evidence whatsoever that ssb goku now is stronger than he was against jiren, so what i said applies. belmod was worried because it looked like jiren was being pushed back, but khai clarified that no such thing was happening and jiren proceeds to put vegeta into the dirt after the latter remarks that he was better against goku. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jan 7 2018, 09:38 PM Post #103 |
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Izanagi!
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Analysing doesn't work like that, and it's never worked like that before in the series. Analysing Jiren's moves gave Vegeta an opening, but it was his own speed and power that allowed him to take advantage of that opportunity. So we're meant to believe that every single spectator other than Khai has no idea what's going on at all? He's pushing Jiren back and getting hits on him that weren't the result of his 'analysis' either, so purely in speed and power, he's better than Jiren in that instance, who was superior to SSB Goku when they were fighting a few moments prior. |
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Jan 7 2018, 09:48 PM Post #104 |
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im not seeing what your point is. the reason given for vegetas performance against a slower and weaker jiren is that he analyzed jirens movements. goku did not. the only story given difference for the disparity is analysis, not power, so claiming that it was shown that vegeta is stronger than goku is an assumption. khai is proven right, so yes we are. the other characters think jiren is getting pushed back but hes not, because he puts vegeta in the dirt seconds later with no effort. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jan 7 2018, 09:53 PM Post #105 |
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Izanagi!
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So if Yamcha analysed SSB Goku's moves, would he be able to dodge his attacks? No, he needs the speed and power. Even despite that, after Vegeta was pressuring Jiren (matching attacks that he didn't analyse, by the way), he gets a few hits on Jiren. That's something that Goku didn't manage to do as he was fighting him the first time, and when he was fighting him before Vegeta rushed in. |
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