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| You guys will drive yourselves crazy trying to make sense of Super's power levels | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 11 2017, 01:47 AM (2,877 Views) | |
| Dear Leader | Dec 11 2017, 01:47 AM Post #1 |
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It's blatantly obvious that the Super writing team have been flying by the seat of their pants for the entire series. The series is filled with "cool"/dramatic moments that make no sense powerscaling wise and therefore make it impossible to form a coherent a > b > c chain. Here's an example: SSj3 Gotenks jobbing to that clone of Base Vegeta early in the series. The writing team were literally like, "hey guys, I think it would be cool if this happened" with no regard for how sloppy and inconsistent it makes Super look. Even the animation budget is all over the place. Literally everything about this series is INCONSISTENT. The next episode could have Gohan jobbing to some fodder who then gets taken out by Piccolo (because dramatic moment) and some people would torture themselves trying to make it fit. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Dec 11 2017, 02:01 AM Post #2 |
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魔王子
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Toriyama wrote by the seat of his pants as well. I'm honestly astounded that he was able to maintain a sense of consistency in the power scaling department knowing how he writes. That said, the power creep had already gotten fairly out of control in the Majin Boo saga, so I can't say I'm terribly surprised the power scale is so inflated, and often times vague in Super. Regarding Base Vegeta being stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, I don't see why he wouldn't be, given that Freeza's first form is stronger than a Super Saiyan Gohan, whose base form was established to be stronger than Piccolo. If I were you, I'd focus on the manga. It's arguably more consistent, but still rather vague in how it approaches God Ki. |
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| Dagon | Dec 11 2017, 04:19 AM Post #3 |
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Base Vegeta tanking SSJ3 Gotenks is entirely consistent with the writing up until that point because it was made very clear that Goku absorbed and surpassed the SSJG power, and Vegeta is practically equal with Goku at that time with all of Whis' training. Base Vegeta/Goku>BoG SSJG Goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>SSJ3 Gotenks |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Dec 11 2017, 05:35 AM Post #4 |
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Yeah it make perfect sense for base vegeta to be stronger than gotenks at this point What makes me scratch my head is that there are people who are anywhere near base goku and vegeta. I would be fine with it if they had reason to be that strong but unless I see what they've been through, which is most likely not anything like the hell that Z fighters went through, then it's too hard to believe and it waters down what we saw in Z Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 11 2017, 05:35 AM.
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| jason vorhees | Dec 11 2017, 07:16 AM Post #5 |
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you're right |
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| Dear Leader | Dec 11 2017, 01:38 PM Post #6 |
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I might just do that. I've heard it's more consistent powerscaling wise. Super has some cool concepts (Beerus, the SSjG and SSjB forms, Metalmen) but I think we can all agree that the anime's execution has been sloppier than a five-dollar hooker.I'll have to take you guys's word for it that Base Vegeta > SSj3 Gotenks is consistent. Maybe that was a bad example. What about things like SSjB Goku having to exert himself against Krillin? That's a blatant "cool moment" that makes literally no sense. The writing team must've been passing a crack pipe around before they shat out that particular gem. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Dec 11 2017, 03:57 PM Post #7 |
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Nah goku only went blue against krillin to see how he would handle himself against someone much stronger. Goku and vegeta use blue in the anime like it's a light switch. I wouldn't assume they're actually using full power unless the show makes big deal about them turning blue like when goku did it against jiren or toppo One of the writers for Super said goku used blue against krillin so he could gauge how strong he was Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 11 2017, 03:58 PM.
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| Dear Leader | Dec 11 2017, 05:21 PM Post #8 |
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Oh, please. Now it seems like you'll defend anything. ![]() Krillin clearly pushes SSjB Goku's Kamehameha back, forcing Goku to visibly exert himself. It's one of the most appaling inconsistencies in the entire series. My whole point is that trying to sort through this mess and make powerchains is just torturing yourself. The levels go up and down depending on what the writers have pulled out their asses this week. I'm guessing you think Android 17 being on par with SSjB Goku despite doing nothing but working as a park ranger is all gravy too? >_> I'm guessing he was "training". |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Dec 11 2017, 05:32 PM Post #9 |
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The writers do what they do to make things exciting but you should consider how ridiculous it is for krillin to be up there with blue and ask yourself if that's really their intentions or if it's just goku being goku
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 11 2017, 05:33 PM.
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| Tinny | Dec 11 2017, 10:19 PM Post #10 |
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Their intention was to wow the audience by showing that Krillin has gotten so powerful he can take on Blue Goku, things like their power level never figured into any of that, and while it's not doing it very well, Dragon Ball Super does look like it's trying to get as far away from the frankly limiting power level system as it reasonably can. The same goes for say, Cabba can take on Vegeta without ever having been angry enough to go super saiyan, Kale can take on Blue Goku, the rest of the Z-fighters can keep up with Goku roughly (except Tien more or less but I don't think the staff cares about him in general), Freeza jogging to get to god level, and the Schrödinger's power level of Beerus which changes from episode to episode in order to ensure he is still more powerful and Goku has something to look forward to. All of it comes down to Dragon Ball both trying to distance itself from the limiting system it used to have (and was more or less an excuse for Toriyama to write an easy conclusion to a fight), and in a way is supposed to put cool fights olver what makes a coherent power level system. The biggest problem is that all of Dragon Ball's actions and it's story more or less comes down in some way to the power level system, if not directly like with the saiyans, then indirectly and in approximate effect like before and after the PTO. It's going against everything Dragon Ball has arguably been since the 80s, especially since it's early novelty of a little child being strong like Kenshiro is gone, and Goku has become the very "big strong guy" that it was subverting way back in the 80s. It just leaves a very confusing story that goes against one of the biggest thing the story still has going for it. Edited by Tinny, Dec 11 2017, 10:22 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Dec 11 2017, 10:58 PM Post #11 |
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Krillin is not anywhere near ssjb goku you guys come on. He only beat gohan because of his tactics and that was base gohan. His strategy is what impressed goku not his power. He wanted to see krillin's skills and guts when he's up against someone with a godly presence. Gohan and 18 even say that there's a big power difference |
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| Tinny | Dec 11 2017, 11:40 PM Post #12 |
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That's a rationalization for the things you see happening in the series, it is not what is going on behind the scenes and in the author's heads. The authors do not care about the power level system, I would think the fact that goku when Super saiyan to overcome Krillin first, the fact that Krillin could get a fourth disc under Goku's nose who should be god level in base (while Krillin should be... Well barely anywhere), then he went blue and had a beam clash and barely won. This was not to show Goku's mercy, but to make Krillin look awesome. That right there is far more important than anything to do with the power level lists that fans create or it's internal consistency (this would have come into play a long time ago if it had, like at the beginning of the series), especially considering Krillin pushes back against him. I will admit it should be completely impossible for Krillin to do anything to Goku except get his butt kicked. However, do you think the authors care about what is possibly the most outdated power system in all of airing shonen anime? Shonen anime that they're competing with for an audience no less. Krillin had to be awesome, so they had them be awesome, in universe logic doesn't factor into this in the least and the power levels that dragon ball has historically been built on mean absolutely nothing. Krillin was that powerful because the writers wanted him to be that powerful, the same applies to every other case of power level weirdness you spot. It's there to accomplish a dramatic job, it's there to look cool, it's there to make a good fight, etc. It is not there to make sense within the context of a series who's conception of how power systems should work is from the 80s (and quite frankly shows). A big power difference doesn't mean that Krillin can't beat back Goku when the plot calls for him to. Edited by Tinny, Dec 11 2017, 11:52 PM.
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| superperfectnerd | Dec 11 2017, 11:44 PM Post #13 |
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Ssj3 Gotenks being weaker than base Vegeta isn't the problem, it's Cabba being able to fight base Vegeta, Piccolo being stronger than ssj3 Gotenks after a few months of training. Why have the cast get so desperate they call on an ancient godly prophecy to then have that power up be achievable by literally any shmuck a little while later by...training...with no particular attention to detail? It doesn't only undermine Z, it undermines itself, that's what makes it so funny.
Edited by superperfectnerd, Dec 11 2017, 11:46 PM.
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| Tinny | Dec 11 2017, 11:50 PM Post #14 |
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In Super's defence, Z also kind of undermined itself in a way. They went to Namek and fought the most powerful being in the universe, then get back and fight... Robots. Robots made by some dude from the Red Ribbon Army that Goku dismantled in his very first adventure. Just robots that are able to take on the most powerful being in the universe, who owned entire planets, and whom employed every villain until then that ran over even demons like Piccolo. All this, and with space technology that humanity is only barely beginning to understand... Is outdone by some guy in a cave from a defunct terrorist organization. Not only that, but we like for super saiyan, it was just kind of... Given to the others comparatively, there was no real arc for them to achieve it like Goku had to go through, the same goes for super saiyan two, who Goku and Vegeta just get after Gohan had to go through a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to attain. That said, unlike Cabba, we spent a lot of time with Goku and Vegeta, Cabba in comparison looks like a shrimp, feels like a newbie, and is someone we've just barely met so... Not nearly enough allowance or suspension of disbelief there for Cabba. Even the androids as stupid as it sounds in concept are drummed up pretty well. Edited by Tinny, Dec 11 2017, 11:50 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Dec 12 2017, 12:03 AM Post #15 |
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A Super writer has literally said that goku used blue against his teammates to test and motivate them. How can you say that the story says krillin is up there with blue when he was hiding behind a rock against ssj1 and he was trembling in fear against ssjb. 18 and gohan flat out say there is a huge power difference The writers weren't intending for krillin to be ssjb tier. They emphasized his strategy from when he fought gohan to when he fought goku and goku even said they need krillin on the team because he's skilled |
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I've heard it's more consistent powerscaling wise. Super has some cool concepts (Beerus, the SSjG and SSjB forms, Metalmen) but I think we can all agree that the anime's execution has been sloppier than a five-dollar hooker.





4:57 PM Jul 13