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| 'Rape' Culture | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 12 2017, 12:39 PM (1,205 Views) | |
| + Emmeth | Nov 12 2017, 12:39 PM Post #1 |
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https://twitter.com/dezidoesit/status/928983421640232961 I am just curious to what you make of this. Everyone is entitled to an opinion so I'm not disrespecting anyone, but isn't this just damaging to equality between men and women? I know there's a difference between some and all, but does it really matter when it's presented like this? Are we living in a rape culture? Are you guilty if you don't take a stance? IMPORTANT I am not inviting to a flame war or any of the sort. This is a post in Deep Discussion, please keep civil and use any word that can be taken offensively in a correct manner. |
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| Bad User | Nov 12 2017, 03:47 PM Post #2 |
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'Some men think that because they haven’t raped a woman, that means they don’t contribute to rape culture. Wrong. Please re-evaluate how you interact with women on a daily basis.' This one? I guess she's referring to men who sexually harass women. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Nov 12 2017, 07:46 PM Post #3 |
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Izanagi!
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She could be talking about attitudes towards victims. If you're slamming an accuser with no proof, or treating the victim as though it was their fault, you're contributing to rape culture without actually physically harassing anyone. It's a very broad topic, which makes it kinda difficult to understand just what's within and outside of its reach. |
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| + Ginyu | Nov 12 2017, 08:37 PM Post #4 |
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Using the term 'Rape Culture' in the western world... Wow, as if women are living in fear everyday afraid to go outside because those awful misogynistic men are going to brutally rape her. Apparently you're contributing to rape culture if you're blaming rape victims or sympathize with rapists. Which I honestly have never seen anyone do. Let alone that I would ever do it. You do however also apparently contribute to 'rape culture' if you make rape jokes. I'm not going to stop making a couple of rape jokes here and there with the lads. I mean, they're jokes. I make lots of Nazi jokes too, that doesn't mean I'm going to start the fourth reich. Sounds a lot like that fallacy where parents think video games are the cause of violence. EDIT: Oh, I also found a cool squiggly line that I guess I'll just leave here:
Edited by Ginyu, Nov 12 2017, 08:40 PM.
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| + Pelador | Nov 12 2017, 08:51 PM Post #5 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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Jesus, what the f*** was up in 1992?
Edited by Pelador, Nov 12 2017, 08:51 PM.
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| + Steve | Nov 12 2017, 09:30 PM Post #6 |
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Yeah I think it's stupid honestly, to me all it does is encourage women to feel weaker and more afraid of men. I've lost count of the amount of women that preach the "1 in 5(or 4?) women will be raped at some point in their lives" Which is a hilariously broad statement, does that only include the first world where it's really not that common, or does it include the third world where it can happen to women daily, y'know, the side of the world that none of these privileged people ever really care to mention? I feel sorry for the genuine plights women face in our side of the world but I can't help but laugh at how pathetic some complaints are, people going on huge rants because a co-worker said "That's a lovely dress you have on" Meanwhile women elsewhere are quite literally slaves and traded around like actual objects, mutilated at birth or just generally treated like utter trash. There are people who are s***ty to women but as said this "Rape culture" thing just encourages a fear of men and it definitely does nothing but divide us. Especially not when people are spouting crap like "We need to teach boys not to rape women" Nobody every sat down and told me: "Now Steven, your penis is an uncontrollable world class sexual assault machine, you are a filthy creature and you must do everything in your power to resist your carnal, savage urges to rape women. It's a curse all boys like you face, you're scum. Try be less scummy." And yet I have not raped someone and have no desire to do so, maybe because I'm not a criminal, that might have something to do with it. All "Rape culture" does is perpetuate the idea that women should be afraid of all men and that all men are a loud noise away from flipping some switch and attacking them. Which makes women feel frightened and men feel insulted, not a very unifying concept. |
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| Tinny | Nov 13 2017, 04:44 AM Post #7 |
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"Living in a rape culture." At least from what I've seen, I think you're misunderstanding the term. Rape culture isn't a type of culture, it's the culture towards rape. Of which attitudes like lovely lady shaming (don't dress like a w---- if you don't want to get raped), contribute to in a negative way, making women less likely to report it. As for what the United States' rape culture is... Well just look up Judy Garland. Look up rape victims who have been advised to marry their rapists. Look at lovely lady shaming and people telling them they shouldn't have dressed or acted that way or given them ideas if they didn't want to have sex. We condemn Rape in the strongest possible terms but to be honest, in my experience it's less of us genuinely having this strong reaction to things like that (I've seen judges sympathize and empathize with the rapist in question, not to mention when you get down to it most rape is men doing things like fingering women, hardly the horrific imagery we like to portray as rape and them condemn of violently forcing yourself on a women and beating them into submission until their only recourse is to let you rape them), and more like... Denial that we have this problem. "Look at how much I hate rape, that means I'm not gonna allow it!" To be honest it reminds me more of the whole 'closet trans being transphobic' thing than of any real revulsion we feel with it. And regarding damaging the equality between men and women, that generally requires that women and men be on an equal playing field. I know some people in the business, and from what I've seen... It's not. At all, the best thing that can be said is that it isn't like what happened to Judy Garland anymore in that people get found out and punished for this some of the time (not all, plenty are bailed out even if found guilty, especially in finance). Thankfully it's changing, and hell depending on who you ask it's gone too far or some crap, or that the Me Too movement is full of fakers. Maybe it's because I just read on her and had a discussion that led into this whole thing and the fact that so little can be done to protect people from sexual harassment, but I think I'll take some getting 'caught in the crossfire' over the Golden Age of Hollywood or pre-modern rape culture. Eventually it'll balance out anyway, so I really don't feel like non-rapists have anything to fear. Admittedly most of this is regarding Hollywood and such and not the broader general movement, but I feel with everything going on in Hollywood lately it's a good starting point. To be even more frank, if we're gonna talk about innocents caught in the crossfire when discussing if the push back against rape and sexual harassment has gone to far, I'm gonna put it like this. "Is my continued positive reputation more or less valuable than a future where women don't have to expect sexual harassment in the workplace?" I would need to be an absolutely self centered A-hole to say my reputation is more valuable than them having control over what's done with their bodies. So I'm admittedly pretty firmly on the side of pushing back against rape culture wherever I can and looking it straight in the face. Making men more aware of how much this happens, and making women know that they're not alone in seeing this s*** and experiencing is far more important than maintaining some facade of there not being a rape problem. I want to face this issue, not paint over it. Edited by Tinny, Nov 13 2017, 04:55 AM.
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| Sam | Nov 13 2017, 04:46 AM Post #8 |
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Her statement is kind of bait. It's vague enough to be true but broad enough to inflame people. This kind of tweet is annoying because it's basically the thesis statement for what should be a five-paragraph essay or something. The parameters aren't stated. So we don't even have a clue what this individual thinks. It's like a clickbait tweet. |
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| Tinny | Nov 13 2017, 04:52 AM Post #9 |
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It does remind me of "Black people can't be Racist." It's true, but without the context in that statement it's just kind of... Well, click baity. In the case of black people and being racist, they're referring to systemic racism (Zimbabwe doesn't count). In this, it really is a statement that goes at the beginning of a paper or at least longer post regarding that sort of thing, without the explanation from there it's easy to overreact and get defensive about it. |
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| + Steve | Nov 13 2017, 08:28 AM Post #10 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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From what I see the outrage tends to come from both sides having a complete inability to talk to each other and rationalize their statements.
Like this, people will absolutely refuse to say there's any merit to anything people say about that, if you mention it you're instantly shut down with extreme anger no questions asked. Not that anyone deserves to be raped because of their clothes but in terms of understanding why someone was a target in the first place it's a pretty important factor. Not many people go out and rape aged women in old fashioned clothes, talking street attacks in first world countries it's typically young, attractive women who may also be drunk. But if you try to say "Maybe she shouldn't have been walking around by herself drunk" the only responses you will ever see are "OMG YOU'RE JUSTIFYING IT??" or "Maybe he shouldn't have raped her!" Again nobody deserves it but people just ignore what things might make it happen in favour of a "rape shouldn't happen ever" ideal, which is nice but not exactly realistic. Some people are just more of a target for crime and it's easy to understand why in many cases, drunk people are an easy target for mugging for example. If you were going to steal from someone do you tackle the big jock in a crowd or a guy alone in an alleyway that can barely stand? Unless you're suicidal the answer is obvious. And then there's the whole bait and switch thing which can lead to sexual assault, giving someone signals and being on for it then deciding no and they get mad and attack. Is it horrible? Yes. Does it make no sense what so ever though? That comes down to who you're talking to and how little you know them, they obviously end up being a vile person anyway. You can't tell criminals to adjust their attitude but you can adjust your own attitude so as to make yourself less of a target for criminals. Not that these are the sole reasons any sort of assault happens or that this would magically stop it all, obviously we need to be more watchful in general. Everyone wants to just stand on their own 140 character pedestal and talk about how right they are rather than talk about what we can do to reduce these happenings and help people protect themselves. To look at another example we don't just say "Paedophiles shouldn't abduct kids!" and send children on their way, we tell them not to talk to strangers. Nobody ever says that's bad advice or that it justifies paedophiles abducting kids if they do talk to the man in the van. |
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| Tinny | Nov 13 2017, 01:33 PM Post #11 |
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That's the rapist's problem, not the person erating clothes. Understanding motivation does not man that women should have to live in fear of men and dress just so they can avoid rape. This is s***ty advice to give to someone after a rape and obit makes it feel like it was their fault and it wasn't. It's nor your fault if you get raped, it's not your fault if you are targeted for a crime. Commendation should lay with the criminal, and blaming the women does nothing but make people feel even more alone after getting raped. And to be framk it seems ridiculous, imagine a Muslim in traditional clothing getting assaulted, telling them not to wear it SoI they won't be a target is just an awful thing to do. People shouldn't feel like they're in constant danger just for walking outside. Even then your solution only helps with a small subset of rape that is totally irrelevant to the prevention of rape. If you're not talking about how the victim can avoid this you may want to specify this. Regarding signals, if they say no for any reason, you stop. You try to read them and see if they're comfortable and want tis and if they at any point say no, you stop. "They must want it" they think as they do it and yes, there are plenty of rapists who do so convinced that they must habe wanted because they stopped saying no. And yes. You can, rape isn't just a band of orcs coming over the city side, cigars lot8 and bike engines roaring kidnapping wonder and dragging them to their lair, and I hate that so many people no absolutely nothing about rape but think they know one what it's like in the real world. I wish people were more informed. Rapists don't think they're rapists at the time. Rapists don't think that they're sexually harassing people. Rapists are mostly convinced thst they are either owed it for some reason, or that they must want it or they can make them want it. These people can be changed and we must inform them as to the nature of consent and dispel the illusion of them deserving sex no matter how blue their balls are. The rape by a stranger is not a big thing, and frankly they're easy to solve, arrest the man, just like you would a murderer or someone assaulting random people. It's the rapists that your family member, your co-worker, your classmate, even your lover, they are the ones we must confront and they can be taught in such a way a to avoid this. They can be taught these actions have consequences, they can be taught about consent, they can be taught about the nature of consent (simply telling them it must be consensual isn't enough, remember a lot of rapists didn't think they were at the time, and only later realized it through self reflection). Also, minor add on, but just a minute ago you said they fostering a fear of men in women, now you're saying they have to fear men to the point of dressing so they don't attract their attention like their in a foreign occupation? Which is it, is there a problem regarding this or not? And frankly of that is how is accepting it better than chanting it? You're giving mixed messages. Edited by Tinny, Nov 13 2017, 01:34 PM.
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| + Emmeth | Nov 13 2017, 01:44 PM Post #12 |
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The whole Me Too movement is silly because it's always the "victim" who gets support. Say one woman says she was raped by some guy at her school or workplace, she'll get immediate support because of what she claims and nobody even questions it. In some extreme cases the allegated rapist denies it ever happened, or happened that way, and he'll be called a liar without any hesitation from supporters of the woman. I like to live by the saying 'Not guilty until proven guilty', but that's not the world we live in, unfortunately. |
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| lazerbem | Nov 13 2017, 02:17 PM Post #13 |
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Hardly. That sometimes happens but there’s also many times where the accused has it brushed under the rug for whatever convenient reason |
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Nov 13 2017, 02:24 PM Post #14 |
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All it takes is a quick google: https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-new-one-in-four-campus-rape-statistic-is-misleading Rape culture is very real in that women are often afraid of coming out about rape or sexual assault because of backlash (see Harvey Weinstein, Louis CK, etc.), women are still judged for "dressing s lutty," and men still get away with far too much without fear of repercussion. But then you have the opposite side of the argument: men are frequently blamed and hated for acts they didn't commit while the "victim" receives support, and rape seems to have taken on an entirely new definition thanks to SJWs who place accidentally touching a woman's butt on the same plane as forcible penetration. There are two sides to every coin. We can easily help with these issues without giving into the idiotic ideas of ravenous SJWs. Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Nov 13 2017, 02:25 PM.
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| * Mitas | Nov 13 2017, 02:39 PM Post #15 |
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That's literally the opposite of how society is supposed to work. Telling criminals to adjust their attitude is exactly what you're supposed to do (and is what we actually do, hence, you know, laws being put in place). Yes, there's a modicum of responsibility people have to hold in regards to not putting themselves in dangerous positions, but wearing skimpy clothing or being drunk doesn't fall under that label. As an example, would you say 'people should never wear sports tops' because there are a small number of sports fans who hold such resentment to a club they might attack you just for wearing it? In regards to 'rape culture' and the tweet in the OP, I agree with Sam. What she's saying is true, but although it definitely exists in some form, the idea of a 'rape culture' is completely overblown. Most guys I know and meet are, contrary to what the media seem to imply, not sexual predators, or even close to it. Sure, we've made rape jokes (and most, if not all of them, don't actually involve women), or asked girls out on dates, or pointed out an attractive female to each other etc (things I've seen mentioned as contributing to rape culture, although not sure how prevalent that thinking is seeing as it was just tweets and reddit), but to include that type of behaviour in any 'rape culture' argument is actually, imo, disrespectful to those who have been raped. |
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