SS3 Vegeto BoG > SSG Goku?

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SS3 Vegeto BoG > SSG Goku?
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 1 2017, 02:55 AM (2,330 Views)
superperfectnerd	Nov 3 2017, 12:53 PM Post #16
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	StrenuousSpider Nov 3 2017, 02:49 AM Pretty sure casual fans think vegito can go ssj3. If fusion is completely useless against the level of power beerus used they can put the dots together just fine. They also think movies are canon to the story bla bla bla. Hell alot of casual fans think GT is a continuity of super and that beerus used 70% of his power as well as the whole kid buu > buuhan. So to go into the argument that casual fans wouldn't think of ssj3 vegito and take that as fact he was referring to ssj vegito then we would need to take everything else i mentioned as fact. But us non casual fans look into things more. Dose not matter if thats what was intended the outcome was something else. Gotenks had ssj. But he had to learn ssj2 and 3 because goten and trunks did not have ssj2 or 3. But if they automatically get ssj because the fuses have it then vegito should logically have ssj2 and 3. Do you really think Toriyama actually expected us to sit there and go into deep thought about a hypothetical power level of a character we've never even seen or just remember how strong super Vegetto was and think even that won't be enough? I mean really? Really? Gotenks didn't even have ssj when he fused in base, he had to go into the ROSAT to learn how to go ssj after fusing instead of fusing as ssjs to begin with. Vegetto was luckily able to go ssj but what gives us a guarantee he can just go ssj2 and 3 without practice right off the bat if Gotenks couldn't go ssj?



* Yu Narukami	Nov 3 2017, 01:09 PM Post #17
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Vegetto should have access to SSJ2, at the very least; that's the impression we get from the difference between Metamoran fusion and Potara fusion. Gotenks had to practice a lot in fusion to even transform once he fused, but Vegetto, with no training or prior experience of fusing using the earrings, was able to transform into SSJ as if it was perfectly natural.



superperfectnerd	Nov 3 2017, 01:23 PM Post #18
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Goku and Vegeta have more experience with ssj than Goten and Trunks but they haven't mastered ssj2 and 3 to the same extent, they can't necessarily just pop into ssj2 and 3, Goku can't be sure of it because Vegetto never tried, so I don't see why he'd be referring to it. They don't have time to practice or anything, if they couldn't find ssjg it would have been their option and maybe they could have gone ssj3 but Beerus was demanding ssjg.



* Yu Narukami	Nov 3 2017, 04:09 PM Post #19
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	superperfectnerd Nov 3 2017, 01:23 PM Goku and Vegeta have more experience with ssj than Goten and Trunks but they haven't mastered ssj2 and 3 to the same extent, they can't necessarily just pop into ssj2 and 3, Goku can't be sure of it because Vegetto never tried, so I don't see why he'd be referring to it. They don't have time to practice or anything, if they couldn't find ssjg it would have been their option and maybe they could have gone ssj3 but Beerus was demanding ssjg. No evidence of that though. Goten and Trunks could seemingly transform without much trouble, and we don't get the implication that Gogeta would be able to transform once he'd formed, so mastery has nothing to do with whether they can transform post-fusion or not (at least, imo), it's more about the method they use to fuse.



superperfectnerd	Nov 4 2017, 11:00 AM Post #20
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	There's no evidence that Goku knows for sure that Vegetto can access ssj2 and 3 right off the bat. It's not about what Vegetto can do but what Goku knows Vegetto can do for sure. Gotenks had to train to be able to go ssj after fusing, Vegetto did not. However ssj2 and 3 are harder than ssj1 to achieve.



+ Solid Snake	Nov 4 2017, 03:29 PM Post #21
滅Are you frightened? Posts: 8,963 Group: Elite Member Member #6,739 Joined: September 11, 2011 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Dragon ball, z, gt, Naruto & Shippuden, Bleach, Rosario + Vampire What Browser do you use? Kept you waiting huh? Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach	Pyrus Nov 3 2017, 04:20 AM I don't understand the point being made then. Sorry. Casual fans aren't gonna know english dub lines are off. You stating the fact they are dub lines proves my point, you're not looking at my post as a casual fan but a guru of the series.
	Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig SUPER THANKS CELL Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8434874/1/#new Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8435708/1/#new


Vegerot1990	Nov 6 2017, 07:16 PM Post #22
Posts: 490 Group: Member Member #13,460 Joined: August 21, 2016 Gender Male	superperfectnerd Nov 4 2017, 11:00 AM There's no evidence that Goku knows for sure that Vegetto can access ssj2 and 3 right off the bat. It's not about what Vegetto can do but what Goku knows Vegetto can do for sure. Gotenks had to train to be able to go ssj after fusing, Vegetto did not. However ssj2 and 3 are harder than ssj1 to achieve. Vegetto had no Problems using Super Saiyan Blue right off the bat.



superperfectnerd	Nov 6 2017, 09:50 PM Post #23
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Vegerot1990 Nov 6 2017, 07:16 PM superperfectnerd Nov 4 2017, 11:00 AM There's no evidence that Goku knows for sure that Vegetto can access ssj2 and 3 right off the bat. It's not about what Vegetto can do but what Goku knows Vegetto can do for sure. Gotenks had to train to be able to go ssj after fusing, Vegetto did not. However ssj2 and 3 are harder than ssj1 to achieve. Vegetto had no Problems using Super Saiyan Blue right off the bat. True but Vegetto was a last resort, Merged Zamasu was going to kill them, they couldn't be sure they'd e able to go blue right off the bat but luckily enough, they could. It's not about what they can do but that line is about what Goku KNOWS they can do and all he has is the ssj Vegetto power he remembers from the Boo arc. Vegetto never tried to go ssj3. Also, with the latest episode of Super and Kefla's power, it's looking less likely that ssjg is outright stronger than even regular ssj Vegetto. There's no fusion that can surely outrank the coming together of Goku and Vegeta? These two saiyan women are close friends and allies but Goku and Vegeta merging is legendary rival fusion, I doubt the girls are on a potential current Vegetto's level right now but they certainly seem to be giving Godku trouble without god forms themselves. Vegetto is a fan favourite moment of Goku and Vegeta putting aside their differences and fighting together, no way they'll just make these two new saiyans create a stronger merging than the main characters. No way. Edited by superperfectnerd, Nov 6 2017, 09:53 PM.



Slifer	Nov 6 2017, 10:01 PM Post #24
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	I've made about half-dozen drafts for this comment trying to make sense of the powerscaling, and I can't. Base Goku at this point is >>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks and I don't think it's retconned. He was tired and still holding ground against SSJ2 Caulifla. That by extension should put him well above Boo-arc Vegetto in equal forms. ToP SSJG Goku >>>> SSJ3 Goku >> Boo-arc SSJ3 Vegetto. If Base Kefla can school SSJG at this point then what relevance does Super Vegetto have? I don't like it but he seems he's obsolete-at-best now.



superperfectnerd	Nov 6 2017, 10:21 PM Post #25
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	I don't mean Vegetto from the Boo arc is stronger than current Kefla, I'm saying that if Kefla is stronger than ssjg Goku then super Vegetto is also stronger than ssjg Goku and a ssjg Goku from the Boo arc would also be weaker than a Boo arc Vegetto. ssjg (current) < ssj Kefla < ssj Vegetto (current) ssjg (Boo arc) < ssj Vegetto (Boo arc) Surely that doesn't change wherever you put them. If god form of a Goku stronger than the two girls individually is weaker than their fusion who is likely still weaker than a non-god Vegetto then the multipliers retroactively apply to earlier in the series giving us at any moment in the story a current version of super Vegetto outpaces a current version of ssjg.



Slifer	Nov 6 2017, 11:08 PM Post #26
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	By that logic pre-God Base Vegetto would've been > SSJG since Base Vegetto > Base Kefla. There's also the issue of manga Base Vegetto being implied to be > SSJB Goku and Vegeta. Retroactively it makes no sense for the boost to be that absurdly large in Z and the BoG arc. Either the multiplier increased from Z to now (f* Vados and her tens of times crap) or it's completely based on plot with no rhyme or reason and Kefla is that strong because she is. Edited by Slifer**, Nov 6 2017, 11:09 PM.



+ Pyrus	Nov 7 2017, 12:18 AM Post #27
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	If Super Vegetto = Z Vegetto in regards to the Potara boost, by gawd, there would have to be an insane gap between SSJ3 Goku and the elite tier guys like Gohan-Boo. You'd have to purposely w*** Gotenks to make up that kind of gap.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


superperfectnerd	Nov 7 2017, 02:56 AM Post #28
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Pyrus Nov 7 2017, 12:18 AM If Super Vegetto = Z Vegetto in regards to the Potara boost, by gawd, there would have to be an insane gap between SSJ3 Goku and the elite tier guys like Gohan-Boo. You'd have to purposely w* Gotenks to make up that kind of gap. Huh? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if Kefla is stronger than ssjg Goku now with regular ssj forms then so is Vegetto now. If Vegetto is now then he also was back then because the multiplier for Vegetto is the same, not his current power but his multiplier. ssjg < regular ssj forms Kefla < regular ssj forms Vegetto Kefla cant be superior to Vegetto, they are Goku and Vegeta, according to Whis together they are unstoppable. Kefla cant't be stronger than them, so Vegetto is stronger than ssjg too. and if he is now, then he always was. Whether that was the intention or not at BOG is irrelevant now because this is the most recent information backed by feats, not some random musing by Goku. Vegeta (Boo arc) = 120,000,000 fpssj = 6,000,000,000 ssj2 = 12,000,000,000 Goku (Boo arc) = 120,000,000 fpssj = 6,000,000,000 ssj2 = 12,000,000,000 ssj3 = 48,000,000,000 Vegetto (Boo arc) = 9,600,000,000 fpssj = 480,000,000,000 Goku (BOG) = 150,000,000 fpssj = 7,500,000,000 ssj2 = 15,000,000,000 ssj3 = 60,000,000,000 ssjg = 600,000,000,000 Caulifla (current) = 1,000,000,000 fpssj = 50,000,000,000 ssj2 = 100,000,000,000 Kale (current) = 1,000,000,000 Beserker saiyan = 150,000,000,000 Kelfa = 80,000,000,000 Beserker saiyan = 12,000,000,000,000 Goku (current) = 1,250,000,000 fpssj = 62,500,000,000 ssj2 = 125,000,000,000 ssj3 = 500,000,000,000 ssjg = 5,000,000,000,000 ssjb = 10,000,000,000,000 ssjbkkx20 = 200,000,000,000,000 Vegetto (current) = 100,000,000,000 fpssj = 5,000,000,000,000 That's what I have, Vegetto equal to ssjg Goku as long as Goku and Vegeta are equal. They can sense deeper power within Kefla and she may be able to use some beserker power in base. Edited by superperfectnerd**, Nov 7 2017, 03:33 AM.



bentovo	Nov 7 2017, 05:11 AM Post #29
Posts: 24 Group: Duplicate Member #14,140 Joined: November 7, 2017	FutureSaiyan Nov 1 2017, 02:55 AM So the argument for a Hypothetical SS3 Vegito being weaker than SSG Goku has always been that Goku “said fusion wouldnt be enough”, but not its plainly clear that Goku had no idea what Beerus’ true power was, considering SSB KKx20 (where SSB is leagues above initial SSB which was already leagues above SSG) was still no match for beerus. So noting that SSG was basically fodder compared to Beerus to begin with, does Goku’s claim really have any weight to it? I dont see why Vegito cant be as strong if not stronger than SSG, and considering Goku had no clue about how strong SSG would be, he only really opted for it because itnwas what Beerus desired. I thought the extended edition of BoG settled this argument long time ago?! Maybe I was wrong. How would a fusion between Goku and Gohan fair against Beerus or God Goku? Edited by bentovo, Nov 7 2017, 05:17 AM.



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