Vegeta vs black in the manga

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Vegeta vs black in the manga
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 31 2017, 01:25 AM (8,186 Views)
superperfectnerd	Nov 2 2017, 12:32 AM Post #31
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Vegeta keeping a random ssj2 rage boost is weird because his base is still equal to Goku but his ssj2 is much stronger? If Vegeta had 'evolved' through his rage and his base form found new upper limits after that ssj2 burst against Beerus so that now his base is 100 times weaker than his new ssj2 power, then it works but not keeping a rage boost just for one specific transformation and his base power remaining the same. When Gohan gets a rage boost it's in all of his forms, before he learnt ssj it was in his base but when he raged in ssj2 it was his base getting angry with a ssj2 multiplier on top and then disappearing again. ssj2 was still a hundred fold boost, he was just either powering up or powering down in general through rage. Vegeta keeping a special beyond ssj3 version of ssj2 exclusively and then Goku never getting it is weird. Eg Gohan with a power level of 1 goes ssj2 = 100 Gohan with a rage boost power of 2 going ssj2 = 200 His ssj2 form isn't getting stronger, he is getting stronger and his multipliers are the same. Vegeta may have accidentally stumbled upon a complete version of ssj2 I guess, so technically the greatest non-god ki saiyan form and Goku isn't bothering with it because he learnt ssjg whereas Vegeta got this form before he attained god ki from raging out at Beerus. Trunks could be part of the way there. Goku's ssj2 = 2 X ssj Trunk's ssj2 = 3 X ssj2 Goku's ssj3 = 4 X ssj2 Base Black = 5 X ssj2 ssj Black = 250 X ssj2 ssj2 Black = 500 X ssj2 Vegeta ssj2 = 600 X ssj2 Ssj God = 1200 X ssj2 But those multipliers are too high for my blood. Edited by superperfectnerd, Nov 2 2017, 12:42 AM.



+ Ssj3vegito96	Nov 2 2017, 01:10 AM Post #32
Posts: 10,333 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Look at these numbers guys Goku 1 Ssj2 100 Ssj3 400 Vegeta 1 Ssj2 100 With rage 200 Trunks 1 Ssj2 100/350 Ssj2 black ~400? Trunks pre zenkai .5? Ssj2 50/175 There. Now vegeta's rage boost doesn't need to be that high, trunks get a zenkai, still lose to black, and have a ssj2 form that's 75% of ssj3. I'm still looking at these numbers but maybe they'll spark some thoughts for someone Edit: I could've swore vegeta said that trunks raised his power almost as much as gokus ssj3. But in viz he says he's as strong Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 2 2017, 01:26 AM.
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Nov 2 2017, 01:22 AM Post #33
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	SSJ2 Vegeta is stronger than SSJ Black, and Base Black is stronger than SSJ3 Goku... Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Nov 2 2017, 01:24 AM.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


+ Ssj3vegito96	Nov 2 2017, 01:28 AM Post #34
Posts: 10,333 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Is base black really stronger though? It was mentioned that trunks had been injured. He also could've gotten a zenkai when he healed that made him as strong as ssj3 goku. So vegeta's boosted ssj2 doesn't need to some huge 200x or whatever multiplier
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Nov 2 2017, 01:31 AM Post #35
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Yes, because Trunks said that at his current level he was nothing but fodder for Black. Chapter: 15, P37.1-3 Context: Goku has beaten Trunks using his god form. Goku: “Ahh, sorry about that Trunks! Trunks: “No, it’s fine…” Goku: “I’m speechless!! To think you were able to come so far on your own!!” Trunks: “Thanks… But even with this power, I was nothing but fodder for Black…”
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+ Ssj3vegito96	Nov 2 2017, 01:40 AM Post #36
Posts: 10,333 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Is base black really stronger is what I asking. Maybe he was just exhausted when we saw him fight him. He did already have scuffs on his face
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Nov 2 2017, 01:44 AM Post #37
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Yes, he is. Trunks, after fighting Goku, says even at his current level, he was nothing but fodder, which is to say, even at full power, he's nothing but fodder for Black.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


+ Ssj3vegito96	Nov 2 2017, 01:51 AM Post #38
Posts: 10,333 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Idk how that has to mean base black is stronger than trunks' special ssj2 but either way I think trunks said he hasn't seen goku black transform in a while...although he has fought his super saiyan before... f*** I feel like I'm getting so close to figuring this out in a way that everyone's happy with lol
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Nov 2 2017, 01:53 AM Post #39
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	It has to mean that because he says "even with this power", so he's claiming outright his full power is useless against Black.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


+ Pyrus	Nov 2 2017, 02:33 AM Post #40
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	I agree with Prince. Trunks at his current SSJ2-is-almost-equal-to-SSJ3-Goku-power was no match for Goku Black, who we know from statements hadn't felt the need to use Super Saiyan in quite some time. SSJ2 Trunks =< SSJ3 Goku < [ownage] < Base Goku Black Though it still makes no sense why Goku wouldn't consider Black an easy opponent to defeat, and would imply bringing Vegeta along is the safest route, considering he has Super Saiyan God, which one-shotted Trunks, and the even stronger Super Saiyan Blue. He also had no idea Trunks wasn't taking into consideration Super Saiyan when comparing to Goku Black, so Goku would likely have been assuming at least Super Saiyan in his mind IMO. Does that sort of imply God and Blue together provide less than or around a 50x boost from Super Saiyan 3? There's also the fact that Trunks noted Goku Black was even stronger than the last time they fought.
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+ Ssj3vegito96	Nov 2 2017, 06:33 AM Post #41
Posts: 10,333 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Yeah I guess goku being cautious about goku black even after one shotting trunks would imply God and blue aren't thousands of times stronger than ssj3 huh. There's also the fight with hit. The God multipliers have been consistently smaller than we thought. Except maybe during the BOG saga? Couldn't this mean that toyotaro has been using smaller multipliers for the other forms too? Wouldn't that make all this work much better?
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


+ Pyrus	Nov 2 2017, 06:21 PM Post #42
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	I'd buy 2x for all the forms except Super Saiyan God. It shouldn't be in another league if it's merely the same boost as everything else. Blue is debatable seeing as Beerus called it a mere power-up from God compared to Complete Blue, but whatever.
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superperfectnerd	Nov 2 2017, 06:30 PM Post #43
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Trunks said he was useless against Black but not base Black specifically, Black has used ssj against Trunks before, Trunks mentions that he's seen it. So ssj Black is stronger than Trunks' power against Goku but the Trunks that fought base Black could have been far from full power due to his fatigue and hunger.



+ Pyrus	Nov 2 2017, 07:02 PM Post #44
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	That's still ignoring what Trunks says to Goku in conjunction with having not seen Super Saiyan in a long time. Ch. 19, pg. 10.3-6 Context: Mai and Trunks observe Vegeta and Goku Black fighting Mai: “That guy…he transformed into a Super Saiyan!” Trunks: “Haven’t seen that in a while…” Mai: “But that means Goku Black’s been pushed into a corner, right?” Trunks: “But somehow…he’s gotten much stronger since the last time I fought him…” Ch. 19, pg. 13.3 Context: Vegeta and Goku Black begin their fight Vegeta: “I see… No wonder Trunks couldn’t handle you.” Goku Black (vs Vegeta) > Goku Black (vs Trunks) > SSJ3 Goku >= SSJ2 Trunks is the conclusion I come to reading those passages. Edited by Pyrus, Nov 2 2017, 07:37 PM.
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+ Ssj3vegito96	Nov 2 2017, 10:23 PM Post #45
Posts: 10,333 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Goku 1 Ssj2 4 Ssj3 10 Ssj2 vegeta 4 Ssj2 trunks 10 Base black 15 Ssj 30 Regardless of the multipliers being smaller making it less complicated we still have to find a way to explain vegeta being so strong Rage boost lol. Why is everyone so against this? He's doing what goku told gohan to do. Vegeta just has better control and is actually able to do it and bring back the power he had against beerus
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


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