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Can you blame people who treated Africans like slaves?
Topic Started: Oct 23 2017, 04:54 AM (2,251 Views)
ahill1
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I mean, it was the mentality of the people at that time. They were born being taught that treating Black people or Africans were the right and normal thing to do, I wonder if all of you would think differently if being taught of it by the society.

Not saying it was right nor justifiable nor anything like this, but if you are raised thinking something is right or common, then it's normal it will be the right thing to you.
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* Mitas
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Both. You can't really fault individual people for being practically brainwashed, but you can definitely fault humanity for it's history of treating other human's like absolute s***.
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Tinny
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It's is very easy to assume how things are at the moment is the natural order of things. It doesn't help that generally the ideology in place to justify it is less treated like am ideology and more "common sense." It's generally a very self centered view of things that didn't question the state of events. As for blaming them, arguably you could say they shouldn't be treated based on their upbringing, but do keep in mind this doesn't stop there, most racists were raised that way today. I doubt we want to say that they're just ok people taught wrong, especislly the likes of the neo-nazis and KKK.

Yes, they are taught by their society, but they also need to look at their situation and question the institutions in place. Hell, I think most realize that it's not an excuse, otherwise people in the south wouldn't say that the Confederacy fought for "state rights" rather than well, the right to own slaves.

The difference in morality and values must be accounted for when studying it, but that doesn't change that what they were doing was brutal, and that if they questioned every and all institutions, including that of slavery, they'd very likely come to the same conclusion we and many abolitionists at the time did. Slavery was wrong, and the movement to be rid of it had to start somewhere. Anyone can question it, and reexamine what they think to be the default, and many did.

Others dig their heels in and refused to consider it, and that's how you get people on the wrong side of history.
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Can you blame people for being religious, for eating meat, or for being anti-gay (for those that still are) today? It's the same with this--brain-washing of the masses. I don't blame anyone for being pro-slavery in the 1800's when they weren't exposed to many (if any) outside opinions or views. I do, however, blame people today who continue to be willfully ignorant, not just of other races, but of anything. The internet exists now. There's no excuse to be a dumb bigot.
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+ Pelador
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I can't blame them. Slaves were offered to traders by warlords and they really needed the extra workforce. There just wasn't enough white labourers to farm all the sugar, cotton and tobacco. So it made sense at the time.


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Tinny
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Pelador
Oct 23 2017, 01:23 PM
I can't blame them. Slaves were offered to traders by warlords and they really needed the extra workforce. There just wasn't enough white labourers to farm all the sugar, cotton and tobacco. So it made sense at the time.
To be more accurate, there weren't enough white farmers willing to work in those hellish conditions in the Caribbean or as indentured servants . So they got africans who didn't have any rights like, and eventually American type slavery and beliefs about races (white man's burden for example) popped up to justify their treatment.
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DanielSan
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I believe that there is a certain level of inherent rights and wrongs that should be self-evident to almost everyone. While it can be argued that they were brainwashed into viewing slavery as a viable institution, I think if a person were to take a critical thought into slavery at the time, one would have to perform some serious mental gymnastics to justify it, even in the 19th century. It takes a lack of empathy to look at all the details of slavery and then justify at the end. Here's a quote from Abraham Lincoln, "Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."
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lazerbem
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The very fact that half the country had already made slavery illegal speaks volumes. You can absolutely lay blame on them due to that, people did know better in large quantities. Slave owners were willingly bigoted in face of that. Also, there’s a lot of myths I’ll have to debunk later in this thread
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+ Pointer
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I blame them . They were simply brainwashed ( the white race prevails we are the best ) the leaders of the world were always narcistic and psyhopath. Combine the two and sit them to a leader position anf you have what we had during the colonisation of america and afrika


I blame them because they were so ridiculously stupid
Edited by Pointer, Oct 23 2017, 05:23 PM.

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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

I don't really blame them personally, that doesn't mean they're not a***** for it but it was the norm and there's no getting around that, societal norms take a long a*** time to change.

Nobody with an ideal ever looks at another and immediately goes "Actually they're completely right, I'm wrong", that's a fanciful view of human psychology.


Think of a real world comparison. For instance, would you give a cat the same rights as you? To have everything it needs paid for, to have it's own place to live, to be entitled to free medical care(if a thing in your country) and anything else remotely applicable to a cat.
Realistically speaking probably not, it's an animal, 99/100 it's someone's pet, property that they should pay for. You might want it to do well in life and be healthy but you'd sooner look after a human.

This is how people were taught slaves to be, human but no better than animals. Why would they think any different without any outside perspective? Why are these people any more important than a dog?
If you believed they were less intelligent, near useless creatures why would you be expected to have a conscience that tells you otherwise?


And then when other people go against that there's the classic "Us against them" we humans love so much.
These people seriously think these things are as worthy as white people? THEY'RE CATS, how can an animal possibly deserve the same rights as me when I'm more intelligent, have more money and actually do something for the world. Nonsense!

Their angle completely makes sense from their shoebox view of the world, just as "The gays will give everyone AIDS" makes sense for that crowd some years back.
And how "Women are less intelligent and don't deserve to be in control of anything" made sense for that lot way back and...well, a good portion of people now really. Ugh.


Morality is something you are taught or experience, nobody comes out a vagina as Gandhi your experiences mould who you are and if all you knew was that slaves were less than you, with nothing in your life really challenging that idea, the blame is hardly on you.
You're still an ignorant prick though, sort it out yeah, imaginary past person I'm talking to.
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Tinny
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Maybe it's not the case in Britain, but at least in America, abolitionism has been a thing as long as slavery's been a thing, and has always been a hot button issue in the United States, and while I can't be certain of other country's history, I'm willing to be the British Empire had a similar debate going on.

The information was always there, and they could always at least attempt to have a real dialogue and question everything, which has been a large part of philosophy and just generally understanding your world since Socrates himself.

And in that sense, I can blame them for not really bothering to challenge their preconceived notions to educate themselves on stuff, especially if they actually wrote or talked about this stuff.
Edited by Tinny, Oct 23 2017, 10:15 PM.
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butterfly
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Why does God allow other nations to enslave the Africans? If you go to Asia today, China has clubs that don't allow Blacks.
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butterfly
Oct 24 2017, 03:45 AM
Why does God allow other nations to enslave the Africans? If you go to Asia today, China has clubs that don't allow Blacks.
inb4 God isn't real

Also I'm changing my answer. I do blame them because I blame all people for their own independent stupidities. Why do we even exist?
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Tinny
Oct 23 2017, 10:14 PM
And in that sense, I can blame them for not really bothering to challenge their preconceived notions to educate themselves on stuff, especially if they actually wrote or talked about this stuff.
Is it really in our nature to do that though? Eventually yeah but it's hardly a rule.

How many things did your parents tell you when you were a child that you later found out to be completely untrue? You without a doubt believed almost everything they said, most people would...they're your parents of course they know everything.


If something benefits someone, they're not likely to challenge it if doing so could likely take that benefit away. Selfishness like that is extremely common, hence how many divides there are between groups of people or the fact that there's different groups at all.
Denounce God you throw away your chance at the afterlife.
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To challenge your perceptions you have to actually want to be better and if you already think your way is the best way challenging that makes no sense, how could you be wrong when life is so good. For you and only you.
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lazerbem
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Quote:
 
it was the norm and there's no getting around that, societal norms take a long a*** time to change.

It wasn't the norm though. Half the country knew better. It is absurd to act like they didn't know the moral implications of this. It's utterly absurd, the slave trade and practice of it was criticized for a very long time before the Civil War and had gained traction to some degree of effectiveness.
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Think of a real world comparison. For instance, would you give a cat the same rights as you? To have everything it needs paid for, to have it's own place to live, to be entitled to free medical care(if a thing in your country) and anything else remotely applicable to a cat.

This comparison is so horrifically wrong within the context of how slave owners viewed their slaves. Slave owners had sex with their slaves, they could hear them talk, they could see with their own eyes that they were people. When is the last time you ever heard a cat actually speak and be able to reason with a person? When's the last time you saw a cat getting relatively wealthy and reading and writing? The slave owners weren't that stupid; you're taking their justifications as fact for what they believed without ever considering that it's in their interest to lie.
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To challenge your perceptions you have to actually want to be better and if you already think your way is the best way challenging that makes no sense, how could you be wrong when life is so good. For you and only you.

That's totally irrelevant to the point of whether or not you can blame them. Yes, you can for self benefitting at the cost of someone else. By your logic we shouldn't blame someone who shoots their girlfriend because doing so made them sleep easier at night.

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Slaves were offered to traders by warlords and they really needed the extra workforce. There just wasn't enough white labourers to farm all the sugar, cotton and tobacco. So it made sense at the time.

Yes, there were plenty of white laborers that could be shipped over. It's just that you actually have to pay them and treat them with a modicum of respect. Also, the slaves offered by the locals weren't slaves in a sense that was at all similar, so it was hardly an inheritance of it.
Edited by lazerbem, Oct 24 2017, 09:57 PM.
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