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SSJB = SSJ3?
Topic Started: Oct 10 2017, 02:36 PM (1,020 Views)
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I know how some would get triggered by this statement. It's not about power levels / battle levels, so stay chill.

I'm actually talking about usefulness. We all know that SSJ3 was introduced as an awesome, new power-up in Z and early DBS, firstly by Goku vs. Buu, then Gotenks vs. Super Buu and ultimately Goku vs. Beerus. Still, as neat as it looked, achieved nothing.

SSJB, at this point, seems as Super's SSJ3. Promised something great, but as well, in the long run, didn't accomplish anything special.

Do you think it would've been better if they just skipped SSJB, so Bills and Whis would've trained them for Ultimate Instinct instead?
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superperfectnerd
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It's not as draining as ssj3, nowhere near.

It defeated Golden Freeza and Goku Black and gave Hit a run for his money by being compatible with kaioken.
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superperfectnerd
Oct 10 2017, 02:44 PM
It defeated Golden Freeza and Goku Black
Yes, I forgot to mention that. SSJ3 would have also had the power to destroy Fat Buu, but Goku just didn't feel like it. With Golden Freeza however, he was somehow forced to, since he'd take responsibility for the destruction of his own planet. However, for the Black Goku and Zamasu arc, it was still Broly-Trunks who made the difference.

SSJB may be a little more useful than SSJ3, but still, wouldn't it have been practical if Bills and Whis just trained them for their ultimate power, since they knew about this? Just sayin'.
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superperfectnerd
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I'm not sure this 'ultra instinct' thing is saiyan exclusive though, it's just that saiyans are naturally gifted fighters so learning it may be easier for them.

Goku still doesnt know how he did it and transforming into blue is still his go to form to get serious, without it they'd have died. Whis has been training them to move without thinking, he never stopped just because they got blue, he just figured it'd take a long time, I mean look at Beerus, millions of years old and he hasn't mastered it.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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They'd be f***ed if it weren't for ssjb lol
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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Transformations generally haven't accomplished anything significant since the Cell Games, notable exception being Super Saiyan 4 Goku vs Bebi Vegeta. Super Saiyan God failed to deal with Beerus, and Super Saiyan Blue has only managed a victory against Freeza, and it was a fatigued Freeza.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Oct 10 2017, 04:49 PM.
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In the manga goku beat hit with it and nearly defeated merged zamasu with it. Vegeta was able to master quickly changing from God to blue well enough to fight with goku black. And vegeta finally landed a hit on beerus with cssjb. And they beat Frieza with it. So yeah I'd say they've done some notable things with it

Edit: wait he didn't beat hit I forgot he dodged the kamehameha lol. Still he was up there with him and hit couldn't push himself any further because of tournament rules so I guess goku would've won?
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Oct 10 2017, 05:09 PM.
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Kayoss
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superperfectnerd
Oct 10 2017, 02:44 PM
It's not as draining as ssj3, nowhere near.

It defeated Golden Freeza and Goku Black and gave Hit a run for his money by being compatible with kaioken.
True, SSB did defeat Golden Freeza and Goku black, but there was a caveat to those defeats.
Golden Freeza didnt master his Golden form yet before fighting Goku and Vegeta, I think if he was able to master this form he would have given the Saiyans a very hard time. Maybe even winning the fight.
Goku Black, was on par SSB goku and SSB Vegeta in his base form (if i remembered correctly). But he literally dominated them once he became SSJ Rose. Its not until Vegeta came out of the Chamber that he was able to beat Goku Black.

But the Goku Black story arc didnt make sense to me. Enraged Trunks was able to dominate Fused Zamasu for a while and SSB goku and Vegeta had no chance against Fused Zamasu.
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Joseph Gomes
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Nah, SSJ3 is straight up unusable. SSB may be garbage but it can still save your life
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Wolf
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SSB is straight up god ki. That’s on a whole different level than anything was before. Beerus punked Goku in SSJ3. He only managed to stand a chance at red god. I don’t think Goku would’ve been able to do half the things he has in super while only being SSJ3
Edited by Wolf, Jan 19 2018, 04:39 AM.
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superperfectnerd
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The mortal vs god ki thing doesn't make much sense to me anymore, Freeza isn't using god ki and can match ssjb Goku (with much more training too), does Goku's actual normal ki potential peter out so much lower than Freeza? Who's to say other races couldn't learn new godly forms if they trained with Whis? If Freeza or Frost did that they'd annihilate everyoe then if god ki is so much more potent for saiyans and takes them beyond their natural potential. Or is god ki just a means of a saiyan reaching their full potential... in which case ssj3 would also unlock that potential if it's a potential unlock, god ki or not.

It would go base < ssj < ssj2 < ssj3 < ssjg (unlocking access to deeper potential) < ssjb < new ssj3

Toppo is also said to use god ki in the manga and he says it like it's the only means of 'reaching the level of the gods', so it's safe to assume Jiren is too... but how does Freeza work then?
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Wolf
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Frieza is just extremely strong. He always has been. Think about this, he was the strongest person in the universe without having to train a day. Once the guy actually wanted to be serious with his strength, it wouldn’t take long for him to get stronger like that.

We see the Z fighters training constantly. Frieza never did that but, you saw the clear gains the Z Fighters had from it. When a guy with tha much potential trains for the first time seriously, there will be a lot of upside to it.
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King Gattsu
Jan 19 2018, 04:56 PM
Frieza is just extremely strong. He always has been. Think about this, he was the strongest person in the universe without having to train a day. Once the guy actually wanted to be serious with his strength, it wouldn’t take long for him to get stronger like that.

We see the Z fighters training constantly. Frieza never did that but, you saw the clear gains the Z Fighters had from it. When a guy with tha much potential trains for the first time seriously, there will be a lot of upside to it.
He wasn't the strongest in the universe though and hasn't been since.

Freeza < Supreme Kai < Dabra < Cell < Majin Boo < Beerus < Whis

Only three of those use godly ki and what about Hit too? Does he have way more regular ki potential than the saiyans too? Freeza was born strong but I cant see him ultimately having more potential than the 'warrior race' that the main character descends from.
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