GT or Super?

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GT or Super?
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 9 2017, 02:21 PM (6,059 Views)
superperfectnerd	Oct 10 2017, 10:42 PM Post #31
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Goku never being called out on his mistakes is frustrating but it's always been frustrating but not just because of the actions themselves but because he gets a free pass by lucking his way through anyway. Other characters behave selfishly and they are punished pretty quickly but its like that in Z too. Goku lets Freeza go 100%, he is lucky enough to remain in front and happens to win anyway. Goku gives Freeza energy and lets him escape, he happens to learn instant transmission so he can prevent Freeza from killing everyone on Earth/Trunks shows up anyway. He decides not to take a pre-emptive strike to prevent the androids' creation by simply asking Shenron where Gero is. They dont even need to kill the guy, they could show up, destroy his androids in their incomplete stages and get on with life. summoning Shenron once again every so often to find Gero and spoil his fun until the old man gets bored. Everyone backs his plan to just train so he can fight them though, no problem. Gives Cell a senzu bean and lets a child fight him one on one tournament style just because he loves battle and fair play. He actually gets chewed out for this one and it's one of my favourite Piccolo moments but Gohan's hidden power is released and everything is fine as Cell is weakened by two hits, so the bean never made much difference anyway. Phew. Imagine if you were watching Z for the first time now, without nostalgia glasses and you saw Goku give Cell that senzu, you honestly think Super's portrayal of his actions are different or is it just that we're this much later in the story and he still hasn't changed? Opts to stay dead because he wants to train rather than be with his friends and family. That 'strong guys appear because of Goku' argument is bulls*. He was there to defeat threats who would have existed with or without him. Pilaf would have wished for world domination, The Red Ribbon army would have gathered all of the Dragon Balls, King Piccolo would have enslaved humanity (maybe stopped by Kami), Raditz or some Freeza force grunt would have eventually come to The Earth regardless, Somebody needed to beat Freeza, the androids were made in revenge but Gku still had to be there to stop the RR army in the first place, if Roshi had done it instead then the androids would have been made to kill him and would have succeeded anyway. How does removing Goku from this make things better? Point is if Goku is reckless it works out for the best anyway and nothing and nobody punishes him, even in Z. If Vegeta say lets Cell absorb 18 so he can have a good fight (I honestly think Goku would have been tempted to do the same), he is punished in humiliating defeat and remains weaker than Cell for the rest of the arc. Goku has always gotten away with everything. It isn't new. Edited by superperfectnerd**, Oct 10 2017, 10:49 PM.



EMIYA	Oct 10 2017, 10:56 PM Post #32
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Sorry but forgive me but I'm going to call bulls* on the whole scheduling issue. It's their own fault for rushing when they should've taken their time. Nobody was forcing Toei or anyone to create Super. They didn't need to keep up with the original source material. They had almost complete control over the Super anime. I'm sorry, I'm not giving Super some pass because the production was too lazy to properly set a decent scheduling effort for a series that it literally had 100% control over. I'm sorry, lazy production doesn't get a free pass. I don't go to a donut shop and get a lukewarm donut with the response that... "Sorry sir, we were incredibly busy and just had so many orders." It's like, tough s. Either you give me a good donut or you give me my money back. if I have to wait a bit, that's fine. I'd rather wait and get quality material then have this rushed mess thrown at me. I've said it before but if Super wasn't based on one of the most popular series of all time, we would never have gotten this many episodes. We'd have been lucky to have gotten 24. If One Punch Man had tried to do this same thing, we would not be getting a season 2 down the line. If Fate/Stay Night from Ufotable had this same animation, we would never get past 12 episodes...if that many. So again, forgive me if I'm not actually forgiving on Super's lazy attempt to properly schedule its material. Quote: I think we can all agree Vegeta is a much better character in GT than Super, right? Super Vegeta is like a mixed bag. There are times when he can be really interesting. One of my favorite parts with him is when I think Bulma is pregnant with Bra, or maybe she's given birth, I don't remember. Anyways Goku comes up and is like. Goku: Let's train. Vegeta: No, I got to look out for my wife and kid right now. Goku: Come on, you can do that any time. Vegeta: No, f off Kakarot. It was honestly amazing. It made Vegeta so damn likable as a character to see him actually being a decent character and father. His interactions with Bra are the same. It's some of his best characterization in the series. But then you get him during the Tournament of Power, rushing off to random fights, verbally denying his help to Goku and just being the typical dick nugget he's been before. Edited by EMIYA**, Oct 10 2017, 10:58 PM.



Dbzk1999	Oct 10 2017, 11:03 PM Post #33
Posts: 229 Group: Member Member #11,042 Joined: March 17, 2014	Just want to say, it's really not Toei's fault for how Super's production started off. They needed a show for the 9 am slot, and Fuji Tv (or was it Shuiesha?) wanted a dragon ball anime to follow the success of RoF
	Until the Battle is Won USMA 2021


+ Saiyan Paladin	Oct 10 2017, 11:05 PM Post #34
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	breaker335 Oct 10 2017, 10:41 PM I think we can all agree Vegeta is a much better character in GT than Super, right? No? Vegeta is barely involved in GT. He shows some affection towards his family and defense for his comrades, but we get that in Super as well. He has actual development in Super with the occasional slide like with the Spirit Bomb. But we also see him being a much better father than Goku and his willingness to lay down his life for who he loves. He's also quite obedient and respectful towards Whis and Beerus. I don't see how he is a much better character in GT at all.



superperfectnerd	Oct 10 2017, 11:11 PM Post #35
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Vegeta being a mixed bag in Super seems so weird to me. It's like Toei are trying to develop him whilst also not developing him because people have always liked him, so they want him to change from how he was up until the Cell saga...whilst also not change? It's like the writers have bullet points for who Vegeta is that just read "arrogant, proud, selfish, Goku's rival" but then are given story bullet points like "Vegeta doesn't train with Goku because his wife is pregnant" and they're trying to do both. Really bizarre.



+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Oct 10 2017, 11:13 PM Post #36
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Paladin Oct 10 2017, 11:05 PM breaker335 Oct 10 2017, 10:41 PM I think we can all agree Vegeta is a much better character in GT than Super, right? No? Vegeta is barely involved in GT. He shows some affection towards his family and defense for his comrades, but we get that in Super as well. He has actual development in Super with the occasional slide like with the Spirit Bomb. But we also see him being a much better father than Goku and his willingness to lay down his life for who he loves. He's also quite obedient and respectful towards Whis and Beerus. I don't see how he is a much better character in GT at all. Character usage has nothing to do with actual character, and what development has Vegeta received in Super? Development implies growth, and Vegeta hasn't exhibited any growth. Quite the contrary in some cases. Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Oct 10 2017, 11:14 PM.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


EMIYA	Oct 11 2017, 12:18 AM Post #37
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	I think Vegeta's worse in Super, that I can recall is is entire thing in the battle with Freeza. Seriously, I don't think I've seen Vegeta at his most hypocritical. At least back in the day when Vegeta talked s***, he tried to back it up. Often failed miserably doing so but he tried. Here, he spends his time literally attacking Goku so he can get a shot off on Freeza. Yet when Freeza transforms, Vegeta cowardly steps back and is like. "Screw this, you fight him Kakarot." After Goku does literally 99% of the fighting and Freeza finally gets weakened, Vegeta, being the so called, tough, badass he is, comes up and starts beating on a weakened guy, only to get the whole planet blown up under his face. Goku finally gets the killing blow and like an angry child, Vegeta berates Goku for stealing his kill. Seriously, Zamasu would be calling Vegeta on his self righteous behavior here.



+ Ssj3vegito96	Oct 11 2017, 12:25 AM Post #38
Posts: 10,333 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Vegeta's character is fine in GT it's just a crime that he was barely used Vegeta has his moments in Super where he gets better character development than in GT and we get to see him develop more. He also his moments where he arguably regresses but still overall I think the way vegeta is handled as a whole(development and relevance) in Super is better Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Oct 11 2017, 12:26 AM.
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


+ Saiyan Paladin	Oct 11 2017, 12:43 AM Post #39
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	ThePrinceOfSaiyans Oct 10 2017, 11:13 PM Paladin Oct 10 2017, 11:05 PM breaker335 Oct 10 2017, 10:41 PM I think we can all agree Vegeta is a much better character in GT than Super, right? No? Vegeta is barely involved in GT. He shows some affection towards his family and defense for his comrades, but we get that in Super as well. He has actual development in Super with the occasional slide like with the Spirit Bomb. But we also see him being a much better father than Goku and his willingness to lay down his life for who he loves. He's also quite obedient and respectful towards Whis and Beerus. I don't see how he is a much better character in GT at all. Character usage has nothing to do with actual character, and what development has Vegeta received in Super? Development implies growth, and Vegeta hasn't exhibited any growth. Quite the contrary in some cases. How has he not shown any growth? Vegeta's affection towards Bra and refusal to train with Goku while Bulma was almost due was something we'd never see him do in Z. He throws his body in front of Merged Zamas's lightning and he was willing to die in Trunks' world while the others escaped. He puts his pride aside to be respectful and obedient to Whis during the training like I've never seen him. Dude is even questioning Goku's ability as a father. Have you even watched the show?



+ Pyrus	Oct 11 2017, 01:03 AM Post #40
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Paladin Oct 11 2017, 12:43 AM ThePrinceOfSaiyans Oct 10 2017, 11:13 PM Paladin Oct 10 2017, 11:05 PM breaker335 Oct 10 2017, 10:41 PM I think we can all agree Vegeta is a much better character in GT than Super, right? No? Vegeta is barely involved in GT. He shows some affection towards his family and defense for his comrades, but we get that in Super as well. He has actual development in Super with the occasional slide like with the Spirit Bomb. But we also see him being a much better father than Goku and his willingness to lay down his life for who he loves. He's also quite obedient and respectful towards Whis and Beerus. I don't see how he is a much better character in GT at all. Character usage has nothing to do with actual character, and what development has Vegeta received in Super? Development implies growth, and Vegeta hasn't exhibited any growth. Quite the contrary in some cases. How has he not shown any growth? Vegeta's affection towards Bra and refusal to train with Goku while Bulma was almost due was something we'd never see him do in Z. He throws his body in front of Merged Zamas's lightning and he was willing to die in Trunks' world while the others escaped. He puts his pride aside to be respectful and obedient to Whis during the training like I've never seen him. Dude is even questioning Goku's ability as a father. Have you even watched the show? Vegeta deemed himself the protector of the planet fighting Super 17, and didn't hesitate to go on a suicide mission against Yi Xing Long to give everybody else a chance to escape after Goku was thought dead. He also was completely past trying to surpass or compete with Goku, and showed compassion for the rest of the group and overbearing fatherhood for Bra. He was one that stopped Goku from self-destructing against Yi, and was the first to suggest fusing rather than fighting individually. Hath thou feigned ignorance? Edited by Pyrus, Oct 11 2017, 01:04 AM.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


+ Saiyan Paladin	Oct 11 2017, 01:56 AM Post #41
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	Pyrus Oct 11 2017, 01:03 AM Paladin Oct 11 2017, 12:43 AM ThePrinceOfSaiyans Oct 10 2017, 11:13 PM Paladin Oct 10 2017, 11:05 PM breaker335 Oct 10 2017, 10:41 PM I think we can all agree Vegeta is a much better character in GT than Super, right? No? Vegeta is barely involved in GT. He shows some affection towards his family and defense for his comrades, but we get that in Super as well. He has actual development in Super with the occasional slide like with the Spirit Bomb. But we also see him being a much better father than Goku and his willingness to lay down his life for who he loves. He's also quite obedient and respectful towards Whis and Beerus. I don't see how he is a much better character in GT at all. Character usage has nothing to do with actual character, and what development has Vegeta received in Super? Development implies growth, and Vegeta hasn't exhibited any growth. Quite the contrary in some cases. How has he not shown any growth? Vegeta's affection towards Bra and refusal to train with Goku while Bulma was almost due was something we'd never see him do in Z. He throws his body in front of Merged Zamas's lightning and he was willing to die in Trunks' world while the others escaped. He puts his pride aside to be respectful and obedient to Whis during the training like I've never seen him. Dude is even questioning Goku's ability as a father. Have you even watched the show? Vegeta deemed himself the protector of the planet fighting Super 17, and didn't hesitate to go on a suicide mission against Yi Xing Long to give everybody else a chance to escape after Goku was thought dead. He also was completely past trying to surpass or compete with Goku, and showed compassion for the rest of the group and overbearing fatherhood for Bra. He was one that stopped Goku from self-destructing against Yi, and was the first to suggest fusing rather than fighting individually. Hath thou feigned ignorance? I was arguing with the "We can all agree Vegeta is better in GT". Vegeta only called himself the protector because someone mentions Goku and he throws a fit about how he's the protector and doesn't need Goku. He's over beating Goku in Super too. He mentions multiple times that he uses Goku as motivation to keep pushing himself to newlevels instead of being hell bent on pummeling him. He has some selfless moments during the last few episodes, yes. Doest thou have anything else for thine argument?



+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Oct 11 2017, 02:03 AM Post #42
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Paladin Oct 11 2017, 12:43 AM How has he not shown any growth? Vegeta's affection towards Bra and refusal to train with Goku while Bulma was almost due was something we'd never see him do in Z. He throws his body in front of Merged Zamas's lightning and he was willing to die in Trunks' world while the others escaped. He puts his pride aside to be respectful and obedient to Whis during the training like I've never seen him. Dude is even questioning Goku's ability as a father. Have you even watched the show? All things I'd expect from a post Boo arc Vegeta. He hasn't grown. I have watched the show, and I find it incredibly odd that people are attributing the growth he received in the Majin Boo arc to all of Super.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


+ Saiyan Paladin	Oct 11 2017, 02:23 AM Post #43
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	ThePrinceOfSaiyans Oct 11 2017, 02:03 AM Paladin Oct 11 2017, 12:43 AM How has he not shown any growth? Vegeta's affection towards Bra and refusal to train with Goku while Bulma was almost due was something we'd never see him do in Z. He throws his body in front of Merged Zamas's lightning and he was willing to die in Trunks' world while the others escaped. He puts his pride aside to be respectful and obedient to Whis during the training like I've never seen him. Dude is even questioning Goku's ability as a father. Have you even watched the show? All things I'd expect from a post Boo arc Vegeta. He hasn't grown. I have watched the show, and I find it incredibly odd that people are attributing the growth he received in the Majin Boo arc to all of Super. I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't see Boo arc Vegeta doing most of those things aside from defending his family, and that's only after he had regressed by selling his soul to Babidi.



+ Pyrus	Oct 11 2017, 02:30 AM Post #44
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Quote: I was arguing with the "We can all agree Vegeta is better in GT". OBVIOUSLY that's bull nuts. Quote: Vegeta only called himself the protector because someone mentions Goku and he throws a fit about how he's the protector and doesn't need Goku. Precisely. He didn't need Goku around to get things done. He was his own man and he forged his own path completely independent of Goku, something Z Vegeta couldn't do and Super Vegeta can't seem to do. Quote: He's over beating Goku in Super too. He mentions multiple times that he uses Goku as motivation to keep pushing himself to newlevels instead of being hell bent on pummeling him. He seems to get annoyed when Goku is stronger than him or whips out some nifty new trick. You can't hold back the truth. It always wins. Edited by Pyrus, Oct 11 2017, 02:31 AM.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Oct 11 2017, 02:36 AM Post #45
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Paladin Oct 11 2017, 02:23 AM ThePrinceOfSaiyans Oct 11 2017, 02:03 AM Paladin Oct 11 2017, 12:43 AM How has he not shown any growth? Vegeta's affection towards Bra and refusal to train with Goku while Bulma was almost due was something we'd never see him do in Z. He throws his body in front of Merged Zamas's lightning and he was willing to die in Trunks' world while the others escaped. He puts his pride aside to be respectful and obedient to Whis during the training like I've never seen him. Dude is even questioning Goku's ability as a father. Have you even watched the show? All things I'd expect from a post Boo arc Vegeta. He hasn't grown. I have watched the show, and I find it incredibly odd that people are attributing the growth he received in the Majin Boo arc to all of Super. I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't see Boo arc Vegeta doing most of those things aside from defending his family, and that's only after he had regressed by selling his soul to Babidi. I said post Boo arc for a reason. Vegeta's character arc was finished by the time Boo was defeated, and by that point, yes, Vegeta would be willing to do all these things.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


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