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| GT or Super? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 9 2017, 02:21 PM (6,060 Views) | |
| Rads | Oct 10 2017, 07:36 AM Post #16 |
 
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I'm sorry but did you watch episode 109 and 110 you can't say your opinion hasn't changed after that. The animation in that episode was amazing. And it introduced a new form for goku that arguably made forms so much more bad a***. The only good thing about gt I'll say was the fight between gogeta and omega shenron and that's about it. Everything else was boring, and all the characters besides goku were useless. |
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| EMIYA | Oct 10 2017, 08:18 AM Post #17 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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What does 2 nicely animated episodes have to do with anything. Episode 109 and 110 look nice but it doesn't change the fact that Jiren is one of the lamest, one dimensional antagonists we've ever had. It doesn't change the fact that Vegeta is again degrading as a character as he actively proclaims he isn't going to send energy to Goku's Genki-Dama. It doesn't change the fact that Goku hasn't done a thing to rightfully earn this power. it doesn't change the fact that the whole Tournament of Power has been dragged out for several episodes. The whole arc is nearly 40 episodes long and with no end in sight. The only thing Episode 109 and 110 had was good animation and some nice music. It doesn't change the major flaws working throughout the entire arc as a whole. |
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| PocketGod | Oct 10 2017, 08:43 AM Post #18 |
 
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Oh looks like Emiya just saved me the trouble, thanks dude. But to answer your question, yes I did watch them. |
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| superperfectnerd | Oct 10 2017, 03:05 PM Post #19 |
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Spoiled milk is much worse than flat soda! |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Oct 10 2017, 03:41 PM Post #20 |
 
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I think the problem with this tournament is how much time has been spent on people like to ribrianne. Other than that there's been a lot But to be fair even though 109/110 were by far the best so far, there have also been other great moments and plenty of build up to these episodes so it's not like it's just two good episodes and the rest garbage |
IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Dbzk1999 | Oct 10 2017, 03:44 PM Post #21 |
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Two things A) Vegeta still gave goku cover for the spirit bomb and was even going to watch over him until freeza took him. He chose not to give energy but he still chose to help in another way B) how didn't goku earn this power? |
 Until the Battle is Won USMA 2021 | |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Oct 10 2017, 04:03 PM Post #22 |
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I feel like they just had vegeta say he wouldn't give any energy to make it a throw back to those classic scenes where vegeta refuses to help Goku earned this new state. You think this came out of nowhere? Whis talked about this before. I'm sure they've been working on it Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Oct 10 2017, 04:03 PM.
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| EMIYA | Oct 10 2017, 05:09 PM Post #23 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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It's not about coming out of nowhere, it's about how Goku is an awful character and has done nothing to rightfully earn his place as this new, above-god character. It is once again, another trait for the Mary Sue. There's nothing likable about the mass universe murdering lust fighter getting this heroic power up. When Goku first becomes a Super Saiyan, it's worthwhile because not only does he struggle to obtain it, but as a character, he feels like he's actually earned it. You can say the exact same thing for SSJ2 Kid Gohan and its a similar problem with Ultimate Gohan in the Boo Arc. Now Gohan isn't as, unlikable a character as Super Goku but he does nothing to rightfully earn his power. In fact, it's literally a lazy a*** character, being even lazier for 24 hours and then becoming the strongest non-fused character at the time just for plot relevance. A relevance that literally goes nowhere in the end. I have no intention of supporting such an unlikable character trying to act the part of the so called hero. As for Vegeta...we've said this before. Why? You don't want to give energy, fine, what are you actively declining it for out loud? Are you a tsundere? Vegeta: It's not like I'm giving you my energy because you are my favorite rival and I hope you take me to the Saiyan Dance and not that meany Hit...idiot." |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Oct 10 2017, 05:25 PM Post #24 |
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You're calling him a Mary Sue but I don't understand why. He's clearly not a perfect hero. He's just a hard working guy who has good morals but sometimes has hardly any control over his craving for battle. Why is he a Mary Sue? Do I not understand what a Mary Sue is? Also just asking but isn't it Gary Stue for guy characters? |
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| EMIYA | Oct 10 2017, 05:55 PM Post #25 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Mary Sue doesn't have to be something that's perfect. Perfection itself doesn't make you a Mary Sue. What makes you a Mary Sue here is being an obviously flawed character but never treated as such in the long run. A good idea of this is how Gohan tries to get everyone to join together as a team. It makes sense, its this huge battle royale. Working together in numbers is a benefit. However Goku (and in fairness others) just rush off just to fight. With Freeza I can't really blame him, I don't expect the obviously evil character to follow the rules. Now in any other series, Goku and the others would be rightfully punished and more importantly, learn from their mistake. Such as how Goku would have learned by now not to drop his guard. And in any other series, a character who doesn't learn, would ultimately be punished. Instead, it's Krillin, Tenshinhan and Roshi, the ones who have actively tried to follow the plan and work together, who are the first to get knocked out. Goku drops his guard and gets this free pass but Krillin drops his guard and gets immediately knocked out by Frost. If Goku wants to feel likable and worthy of this power, then he needs to really understand the weight of what he's done. No matter how you try to slice it, the primary reason for this tournament is because of Goku. He's the one who brought it Zeno's attention and actively made sure it happened despite Beerus' warning. You feel no weight behind Goku's understanding other than to have a good fight. And if the series doesn't bother to express weight beyond Goku's actions or doesn't express the real consequences behind him. Why should I care? And this makes him far worse than a perfect character. If you make a mistake, you don't get praised or get a brand new power up, you get punished. The story is written about in a way that just supports Goku despite the fundamental flaws. Another good example is when he's testing out lower forms on Jiren. As...was it Roshi? I don't remember. But as someone said, if Jiren felt like it, he could instantly knock these lower forms of Goku out. This aspect that Jiren wants to fight Goku has barely come up and isn't worth the risk. But again, in any other series, Goku's flawed actions would've been punished. Instead, Krillin comes up and its all... "Nah man! This is good, Jiren wants to fight, that's why he's doing nothing and he's also going to just stand there and let you power up your super amazing move." Quite a lucky scamp you are Goku that your enemy is so forgiving. If I'm supposed to support Goku as a hero then after everything he's done, I want him to understand both the weight of his actions and how he can improve on that. I don't want to support this selfish fighter who does so many things wrong, so many things that other characters like Krillin have been punished for, get a free pass again and again. |
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| ahill1 | Oct 10 2017, 06:51 PM Post #26 |
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Edited by ahill1, Oct 10 2017, 06:58 PM.
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| + Saiyan Paladin | Oct 10 2017, 06:58 PM Post #27 |
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I can barely sit through a single episode of GT without losing my mind. With Super I can at least sit through a handful of episodes. Super is just more entertaining to me in every way. Neither are very good though. |
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| EMIYA | Oct 10 2017, 09:50 PM Post #28 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Now tell me how many of those shots are badly animated. Because its easy enough to stop a shot right on a bad frame. Here's the exact same battle at a different frame.  Not nearly as bad look it is? I think Cell on the upper right might be clipping through the air but hey, you got 5 different characters being animated. Unfortunately, even if you animate Goku vs Beerus.  It still looks awful. But then again, perhaps I'm too harsh here. Goku is after all, fighting a giant blank eyed Beerus. Perhaps this is the reason for Beerus confidence throughout the series. He can grow giant and look at the blank face of his. Someone clearly knows the Ultra Instincts. In the end, this wasn't badly animated, this was Super's excellent attempt at foreshadowing what would happen in the Tournament of Power. Beerus clearly knows that this Goku is the one. It's not about fighting Super Saiyan God, it's about crafting the perfect fighter to challenge Jiren, the only man Beerus can't, maybe, supposedly, perhaps, not certainly, could possibly, I don't know, defeat. --- --- And that's the difference, DBZ looked good for the most part when it was animated and it was only after quickly catching a quick frame of bad animation did people even notice and this was all in the late 80s and early 90s. Super's original animation was a lot of bad frames being animated that were ultimately incredibly stiff and used only the bare basic of animations in the mid 2010s, which makes it really egregious when at this same time, One Punch Man was played. That was done on a small budget and well...  It's kind of hard to argue with results. 
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| + PocketGoggu | Oct 10 2017, 10:22 PM Post #29 |
Royal Guard.
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You really need to realize that Super had a rushed schedule and because of that the animation suffered because of it. Only recently is the schedule beginning to improve. This video should be the first and last word on Super's animation issues, which it was plagued with during it's beginning. (We have transcended the needs for words.) Edited by PocketGoggu, Oct 10 2017, 10:26 PM.
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Noice sig from Sushi Nyah
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| breaker335 | Oct 10 2017, 10:41 PM Post #30 |
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I think we can all agree Vegeta is a much better character in GT than Super, right? |
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