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| Lying about your age/rape | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 2 2017, 04:40 AM (870 Views) | |
| breaker335 | Oct 2 2017, 04:40 AM Post #1 |
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What are everyone's thoughts about someone lying about their age and the adult is at fault because they couldn't tell even though they get the dumbest answer to that by saying "they should've known." Nowadays, it's really hard to tell how old someone is. I'm a year out of highschool and I gotta keep myself in check when I see a cute girl walking by only to realize she might be too young and I'm no longer of age to even attempt something. This type of stuff usually happens to guys but I'm sure this also happens to women. Then there's the whole issue of women lying about rape only to screw the guy's life over. Rarely if at all hear anything about the opposite though, unless someone can enlighten me with some examples. Sorry if there are spelling mistakes, came home from work and I'm really tired. |
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| * Mitas | Oct 2 2017, 02:51 PM Post #2 |
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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I don't think that women lying about rape is as common as people think. It's certainly nowhere near as common as cases of rape going unreported by the victims. Obviously even just one case is not a good thing, but I think people act as if women are lying about rape left, right, and centre, when it's more likely that they won't report a rape in the first place. Regarding the main topic, I don't really know how that scenario goes down in the courts, but I feel like there will be some leniency involved if it can be proven that either the girl in question lied about their age, or the person in question was unaware they were underage. I'm pretty sure I saw a news article a little while back where that exact thing happened and the defendant wasn't charged with anything. |
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"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is." | |
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| EMIYA | Oct 3 2017, 02:01 AM Post #3 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I have a feeling that, the person in question who was tricked is going to be punished in some way. It's because there's probably not much that can be done on that side. Let's say I meet a girl, she says she's 18, we do stuff, we find out she's actually 17. She files charges despite having specifically lied about her age. In a court, I probably have no way to show the jury that she lied. It is literally her word against mine. I probably don't have anything, other than the jury to say, you know what, she does look 18, I can see that mistake. But she can bring up a birth certificate directly indicating her age. She has material to at least provide evidence for her answer. More than likely, I don't and that unfortunately probably won't work well in a court hearing. So while it is probably unfair, I feel in such a situation you just really have to be careful and if you want to do anything with a consenting girl that you aren't sure of the age, might as well just make sure. Might not seem romantic but in my eyes, I'd rather be safe and sexless than be in prison. |
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| + Steve | Oct 3 2017, 07:12 AM Post #4 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I feel like if the person is a year or two underage and you aren't that much older than her then it shouldn't hold up in court. It's pretty ridiculous really. You can be 2 months over legal age and they can be 2 months under...but you're a rapist and they had no responsibility in this act what so ever? f*** that. These underage people know exactly what they're getting in to in these cases. Obviously it's different if the person is actively trying to get in their pants but the child repeatedly tells them they're under age(but doesn't say no to the sex) if you know their age and wilfully go along with it, that's on you of course. Which brings me back to being a year or two under, there should be some leeway there. Half the 15 year olds where I live look older than me for crying out loud, most of them drink, smoke and do drugs so they look easily 10 years older than they are in actuality. Obviously if they're like 12 and the adult is over 25 they should definitely have known better but 15 and 17/18 shouldn't be the crime of the century. (legal age here is 16) As for false rape claims I actually believe it happens more often than people want to admit but not so often that it should be assumed. I've seen too many women abuse various systems too much to not consider it. People in general aren't great at taking responsibility for their actions, especially if they care about their public image. Edited by Steve, Oct 3 2017, 07:13 AM.
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| Bad User | Oct 4 2017, 08:52 AM Post #5 |
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I guess it depends on what system of laws everyone has in their country. Here, if the other one is underage and the other one over, it won't be incriminated as long as the minor has at least 15 years-old and there is a difference of 3 years or less between them. Also, a person cannot be sentenced if they were of good-faith. Say, for example, you met this girl in a club and ended up sleeping with her - then, she sues you because she was 14. Of course, stating in the court that 'Hey, underages are not allowed in night clubs, so I trusted the club's administration that they respected this policy and it's their fault they were careless about who they let in.' is a very strong and valid point. In other cases though, it's hard to prove. About rape, there should be at first the presumption of innocence. If someone claims you raped them, they should be the ones responsible to prove that it was so. Otherwise, it generates in law abuse. For example, have a guy piss off a group of 100 femi-nazis. Then, as a form of revenge, they all file lawsuits against this guy and the juries believe every single one of them because lel y not. There should be rigorous methods of verification before sentencing someone. Rape is a horrible thing, but yes, there are people lying about that and there shouldn't be loopholes that they can take advantage of. All in all, justice is neither black nor white and sometimes, how skillful the attorney is can make a big difference. A good, talented attorney can make a criminal escape for free or with an extremely low sentence, whereas a bad attorney can make an innocent pay for something they should not. And, besides that, in some cases it also matters if one of the parties has connections to the jury or to anyone with any influence, we can't pretend these things don't actually happen. So, you may act in good-faith but then find yourself playing the scapegoat. Edited by Bad User, Oct 5 2017, 01:33 PM.
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| + Steve | Oct 4 2017, 10:29 PM Post #6 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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The main issue with this to me seems to be...well I'm not sure if it's society, psychology or both. Victims shouldn't feel that being raped is their fault or that they shouldn't report it, because not reporting it within days of it happening basically gives them no chance of getting the rapist charged for it. But I absolutely see no reason why we should just look down on the alleged rapist just because victims tend to not report these things, to me that's ridiculous. How many people would prefer to go to jail for something they didn't do versus being raped? Both are horrible and each individual reacts to either differently but I can't envision a single way being raped is worse unless it's particularly brutal. I would far rather someone burst in my house right now and have their way with me than to go to jail for 5 years because some dick randomly claimed I raped them, for everyone to from then on think I'm a rapist and all the negative aspects that brings to ones life. Rape can destroy your life, absolutely. But not always, prison however always does unless you're a celebrity or rich. Once you're a registered sex offender you might as well just jump off a bridge and if you were actually innocent clearly that's even worse. So the main thing that needs tackled is the mentality around it. With this subject "Innocent until proven guilty" seems to be taken extremely negatively and that's a perception that needs to be changed, victims shouldn't feel like their attacker should automatically be put behind bars when they're ready to open up about it. They should know that they need to report it as soon as possible in order to get that justice because it's the only way that makes sense. Obviously rape is traumatic and rational thought isn't going to be at the forefront of a victims mind but that's no reason to throw logic out the window. If it were a case of "Guilty until proven innocent" practically nobody would have a means of defending themselves unless they constantly kept a record of everything they do and when. |
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| Bad User | Oct 5 2017, 01:28 PM Post #7 |
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"Innocent until proven guilty" is a very strong and worldwide encountered law principle. It is not always 100% fair indeed - take example when you really are a victim, but you don't have enough evidence. It is frustrating as hell and this principle pretty much stands in the way of your own justice, but law is far from perfect. The good thing is that technology and science have evolved massively recently and still do, so people have more and more tools to prove what's happened to them. And I hope that in the future, there will be even more. But, as cruel as this principle may seem, it prevents a lot of abuses. And this one here, is the perfect example. Having someone file a lawsuit for underage sex or rape. But that doesn't stop there, there can be people bringing you to trial for a lot of stuff. Is there a group of people who think ill of you? Have one sue you for rape, after that another one sues you for theft, after that another one sues you for fraud and so on and so forth. And so, you'd be spending months, years of your life in restlessness and courts, constantly proving your innocence. It's so easy to mess up one's life if it weren't for this simple, yet powerful principle. In practice, it doesn't always work 100% as it's supposed to be, but we should be happy that law evolved since middle ages. Both rape and being sent to prison as innocent are terrible and nobody deserves that. And in some, if not many cases of rape, the victim might not even have evidence to prove that. And authorities sometimes don't have anything to do about it. So, if the methods to deal with the consequences are still scarce, they can still focus on preventing it. You already told one way - raising awareness. Authorities can make more programs, especially in schools, educating young people how to avoid rape (for example, don't get into a car with a stranger etc. I know it seems d'uuh for us, but you'd be surprised how naive many teenagers still are) and, if it happens to them, how to proceed from there (don't blame yourself, go report it as soon as possible - this way you're also giving the offender less time to prepare a defense himself). And to stay on-topic, as long as we have the democratic human right mentioned above^ and also the principle of good faith (for example if someone underage fakes an ID and you sleep with them), it's cool. You still must be aware all the time, if necessary, ask for the other one's ID before having a fatal one-night-stand (better safe than sorry... and as crazy as it sounds, it really is your responsibility - you're supposed to be the older one, therefore more informed and more sensible than the minor); if you're drinking or whatever, try not to lose your head and still be aware of your acts. And you should be just fine. Edited by Bad User, Oct 5 2017, 01:32 PM.
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| PopcornShower | Mar 25 2018, 04:15 AM Post #8 |
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Like the case in Missouri where a girl who was violated was turned into a pariah and her family ran out of town? Or in Steubenville when a girl was sexually violated by two football players and it was posted online and a large amount of people on Twitter blamed HER? This whole myth that most sexual assault cases is fabricated to ruin some poor guy's life really needs to stop. |
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| + Steve | Mar 25 2018, 10:25 AM Post #9 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I've never seen how this is a myth for most cases, it's generally a consideration because of how little evidence we can garner. Mindlessly believing any story from an alleged victim is just stupid, there are enough proven cases where it was a lie that it should always be taken in to consideration. Stuff like this: https://nypost.com/2009/12/07/woman-confesses-to-lying-about-rape-story-that-sent-man-to-prison/ Unfortunately the law just can't pinpoint the truth in good time. Genuine victims need to be encouraged to speak out about it as soon as it happens, not weeks later, not years later. That's obviously not as easy as it sounds but that whole idea isn't supported much so of course it's an even bigger ask. I feel like the best "solution" would be to have expertly trained psychologists at every police station, people that will remain calm and sympathetic and try to get the full story. Can see how it would be daunting to know you're going to be chucked in to a room and interrogated, if you genuinely had just been raped. Short of legit lie detectors that's about the best we can really do as it's such a hard thing to prove and a pretty easy thing to fake. |
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| + Clearin | Mar 25 2018, 10:30 AM Post #10 |
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If anything a girl lying about her age and then having sex with you would make you more the rape victim. She had sex on you on conditions that you didn't consent with. |
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| Arkadom | Mar 27 2018, 10:32 PM Post #11 |
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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It's something that is unfortunately prominent in my local area, underage people manage to make their way into the nightlife quite a lot and it's a struggle I've seen a lot of people I know of both sexes deal with. Ultimately, because rape is such a significant crime the bias will always be on the side of the accuser whether it is true or not. On the one hand this definitely leads to more instances of "justice" but on the other it becomes a glaring flaw in the system when the accused is actually innocent. This applies to all crime but it's by far the worst in rape cases because it's one of the easiest crimes to pin on someone with minimal evidence beyond the value of someone's word. It's very difficult to get someone arrested for a murder or assault that didn't happen or they didn't do because there is no physical evidence, and in some legal systems rape victims can opt to not be physically checked for DNA of the accused because of how invasive it can be. When it comes to the issue of being underage I feel like a very common cause of rape accusations from underage girls is that they consented but came to regret it and simply cannot accept that they went through with it of their own volition. When I was in school that exact situation happened. A old friend of mine slept with a guy she'd been crushing on for ages and we were all roughly 14/15 at the time and following this the reactions of our peers led her to regret it, and she wound up accusing the guy of raping her and it became a very big issue for a while, the guy was forced to go to a different school and in the end my friend wound up feeling even worse about it, even though the case essentially ended as nothing more than a restraining order. Obviously that is not the case in all false accusations by any means but from personal experience I've seen that so often girls seem to use the system to their advantage, either due to confusion, panic, or just blatant spite. Whereas when males make accusations of rape it is so often just laughed off or even praised despite the fact that I've never known a guy to go through with a sexual interaction and regret it enough to actually take it out on the partner. Those accusations only ever seem to come out when it's a very serious situation and it's so often disregarded because apparently men can't be sexually assaulted unless it's by an older man. Personally I think if both sides are underage there just needs to be some reinforcement of the law and further education, not punishment. When it comes to people being tricked by someone who is under the legal age it's tricky because obviously it cannot be proved, even despite the use of the good faith argument, but I think in that case signs of struggle should be checked for. The body leaves some pretty obvious signs of if entry or contact was not consented to but once again it's not always definite due to varying contexts. But when it does come down to true, malicious rape, then it's just a shame we don't have the death penalty any more. Any grown adult that doesn't grasp the concept that they are not allowed to force themselves on another probably never will. |
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