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- If you could, how would you rewrite, JoJo?
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| If you could, how would you rewrite, JoJo? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 13 2017, 11:58 PM (396 Views) | |
| + PocketGoggu | Sep 13 2017, 11:58 PM Post #1 |
Royal Guard.
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Okay. I love JoJo, I love the strong characters, the style, the plot, the ridiculousness, and how bizarre it is while still managing to keep a serious mood on occasions. But, I feel like the series is still flawed to the bone, at least up to Part 3 itself. So, I'll be unloading what I feel like would be the ideal JoJo rewrite, and you can do the same. Part 1 - The first three episodes are perfect, they perfectly build up the dynamic of Phantom Blood's two main characters Dio, and Jonathan. However, the middle was outright bad. -1 The two knights do not exist here. As well as the kid. -2 The arc instead has us traversing Dio's castle, and we see as he slowly gains more and more respect for Jonathan. -3 Zepelli dies for Jonathan and gives him his Hamon as usual, there's no other Hamon users in this arc. It's too short for anymore characters. -4 More horror with Dio as he commits his deeds. -5 The finial fight Dio calls off his Vampires, doesn't threaten to turn Jonathan into a zombie, and basically admits he'll give him a quick death. -6 The ending is unchanged. Part 2 - The only thing I would change here is the main villains, and because of that the ending of the arc. -1 Five episodes will be devoted to Kars's backstory, and how he became the man he was. -2 Wamuu doesn't manage to make it back from Greece in time. -3 Kars becomes the Ultimate Life Form, and more focus is put onto this, so they fire a nuke at him, more escaping until finally he's jettisoned from the planet. -4 The Pillar Men have more screen time to flesh out their characters. -5 The finial fight is Wamuu V Joseph as he must avenge his masters. -6 Santanna's fate is left even more dubious. Part 3 - Okay. There's a lot I would change in this arc. Many things should have been different, and some of the fights were more filler than they should be. -1 Advol dies the first time, him not dying makes that moment cheap. -2 Many of Season 2's antagonists replace Season 1's, D'arby, Oingo Boingo Brothers, Barst (forgot her name), Tower of Grey stays, Hol Horse, and Hanged Man stay as well. -3 Hanged man is a more fleshed out antagonist, having a respect, for Polernaff and his urge to kill him, he considers himself dammed for what he has done, he's a drinker trying to drink away his past, and he has some children. -4 Season 2 would only have DIO, Enyaba, and Vanilla Ice. -5 Oingo Boingo Brothers have completely different motivations, they just want to get rich and consider the group easy pickings. -6 DIO waits for them at Egypt and kills Iggy, the rest of the arc is trying to escape him, and survive. -7 The group forcibly splits up, Kakyoin V Enyaba, Star Platinum V Vanilla Ice who remarks such a similar stand to DIO's is a sin. -8 a few episodes would be devoted to DIO, how much he has changed, and how he got in his position. -9 Jotaro's power is foreshadowed more and more by the remarking's at how similar the stand is to DIO's. |
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| Notaka | Sep 14 2017, 12:00 AM Post #2 |
Always Wright
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I...Really wouldn't change anything. Maybe change some of the a**pulls here and there, but nothing major. |
 "My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig!  | |
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| + PocketGoggu | Sep 14 2017, 12:02 AM Post #3 |
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Royal Guard.
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Why? Don't you there's anything that could have been done better? Edited by PocketGoggu, Sep 14 2017, 12:03 AM.
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Noice sig from Sushi Nyah
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| Notaka | Sep 14 2017, 12:03 AM Post #4 |
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Always Wright
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I like JoJo the way it is. And I don't think I would be any better than Araki. |
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"My name is Kakyoin Noriaki!" Thanks to Graffiti for the Sig! | |
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| EMIYA | Sep 14 2017, 01:03 AM Post #5 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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I'd work on some of the more glaring plotholes and inconsistencies an frankly, I'd re-write Part I. You can have the overall message but needless to say, Part I is pretty low key and subtle compared to what Araki will bring out later. Most of the characters beyond "Dio Brando" are honestly pretty subpar. Jonathan Joestar certainly isn't the most boring Joestar (I'd have to give that Giorno to be honest) but even with someone like Giorno or Part 3 Jotaro, they at least had an excellent cast along with them. Here though, I don't care that much for Zeppeli or frankly even Speedwagon. The characters don't stand out as much as they will later on an the whole Part feels less like a "Bizarre Adventure" and more just "Any Adventure" you'd see in a manga. Truth be told, if it wasn't for Dio, Part I would be pretty bland. Jonathan's pretty vanilla and just seems like a Kenshiro ripoff design wise. I don't care much for the rest of the cast or even plot. Needless to say, not only did later Parts become better, they became more entertaining and that's what Part I needs. It needs that JoJo charm that the other parts had. Otherwise, its hard for me to even suggest it and I often times just tell people, start with Part II. |
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| + PocketGoggu | Sep 18 2017, 02:08 AM Post #6 |
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Royal Guard.
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That's pretty much the worse suggestion you can give to someone in regards to watching/reading JoJo, part 1 is a necessary read for the story as a whole. Edited by PocketGoggu, Sep 18 2017, 02:12 AM.
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| EMIYA | Sep 18 2017, 08:15 AM Post #7 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Just give people a quick feedback on some of the more plot important relevants. You could easily just explain Hamon in Part II and then give people a little heads up on Dio's stealing Jonathan's body. Phantom Blood is way too boring and downgraded compared to the rest of the parts. It's characters are basically cardboard cutouts and as entertaining as Dio Brando is, he is basically just a step up from a one dimensional villain. In fairness, as parts go on, we see more complexity of him, but in Part 1, he's pretty bare boned. All the way up until he finally seems to show respect for Jonathan. Jonathan? He's a vanilla protagonist, just a means to stop Dio be a plot device really in Part 3. Zeppeli? Just your basic teacher character with again, none of the personality seen in later Zeppeli's like Ceasar or Gyro. Even other teacher-like characters such as Lisa Lisa are far more interesting than Phantom Blood Zeppeli. Speedwagon doesn't do jack squat but yell, so again compared to other secondary characters like Polneraff, Avdol, Narancia, Diego, etc, he's not all that interesting. The secondary villains are a joke but in fairness I'd rather focus on Dio then having 20 different antagonists shoved at us like in Stardust Crusaders. It's honestly not that interesting. If someone wants some plot important details, go to Wikipedia or something. Start with Battle Tendency where the characters, story and series actually gets good. |
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| + Steve | Sep 18 2017, 09:27 PM Post #8 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I feel the same way really, part 1 is a bit...meh. From an anime-only watchers perspective at least. It's like 8-9 episodes long and I think that's entirely the problem, not enough time to flesh characters and concepts out. I'd like to say I was heartbroken when Zeppeli died but...not really, he was cool and all but he's only around for like 3-4 episodes or something and it's not a character heavy series like the many great 12 episode drama series. That's really all I would absolutely change, length of part 1 and fill in the appropriate gaps. Like how Jonathan gets Hamon, it takes like 5 minutes... Part 2 did literally everything better, the training scenes were interesting and unique and didn't pad the run time a ton. Less important changes for me would be in part 2, Lisa Lisa does not get enough screen time. She's freaking badass. Fix the continuity with Joseph getting on the plane...literally impossible that Stroheim got on there. I'm fine with some nonsense but I find that particularly jarring. Maybe they could have had two cyborg dudes to cover that. Part 3 I think kind of overstays it's welcome a bit, it's a bit too "Stand user of the week" for too long. Other than that just PIS stuff. "We're on this extremely perilous journey where we're attacked by powerful foes almost every day, frequently using weird illusion powers to split us up, confuse us and generally endanger us all Let's not listen to our trusted companion when he's saying he's seeing weird s***, he's probably crazy, it's not like there's Stand users around..." Part 4 I feel was...kinda dull at times? Some episodes it just felt like nothing really happened, the plot didn't go forward. Not necessarily more action but more "events" would have been cool. Also Okuyasu never got to do enough. The Hand is damn powerful but he never really had many major fights. |
 Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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| + PocketGoggu | Sep 19 2017, 03:50 AM Post #9 |
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Royal Guard.
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So, skipping the start of a story is a good thing? Hell, by doing it you're essentially depriving them of forming their own opinions of it. And Considering that the first three parts of JoJo are so dependent on reading them in order I really have to doubt why you're dolling out this advice.
Adding the heads up of Dio stealing Jonathan's body in Part 2 would just be an awful thing. It would essentially be an unanswered plot point which would clog up the story of Part 2, it shouldn't be mentioned there. And Dio stealing Jonathan's body loses all of its impact when you haven't even experienced who Jonathan is.
Part 1 Dio Brando is literally the best his character ever was, we saw who he was, what made him the man he is today, his evolution when he became a vampire, how cunning he is, his character development, his definition of power changing from wealth to power itself, his hatred of his father and the respect he gains for Jonathan. He's the most complex character in the original trilogy, criticizing him of being one step from a one dimensional villain leaves me questioning how you can reach that claim. Skipping Part 1 and you skip the start of Dio's tale, and once you skip the start of Dio's tale, DIO suffers because of it.
You're selling Jonathan way too short, as a character he was meant to set the ball rolling for JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, his character itself is meant to be a symbol of purity and justice. He's meant to be a symbol representing justice. Remove Part 1 from the equation, and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure changes drastically. Also, when you get down to it like that every character in a story is literally a plot device, Jotaro is meant to stop DIO, Joseph is meant to stop The Pillar men.
For Advol and Polneraff they really only started to become good characters during the latter halves of Season one, and Advol's character being brought back immediately after a satisfying and emotional death, and getting killed off again doesn't help his case for being better than Speedwagon.
No arguing against that. Also, too be fair Stardust Crusaders sucked when writing it's minor antagonists, there was really only a few in there who I would say are characters.
Phantom Blood is fascinating, the first three episodes are some of the best in JoJo on a whole, and the ending, and final episode is the best in the series.
Which is subjective. But, I'd say isn't sound advice. Edited by PocketGoggu, Sep 19 2017, 04:29 AM.
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| EMIYA | Sep 19 2017, 07:40 AM Post #10 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Unfortunately there's nothing of interest to Jonathan. For me, he's just a step up from both Part 3 Jotaro and Part 5 Giorno and I'll still give Jotaro enough credit when adding in his other Parts to his character. Dio in Part 1 is in similar boat. As much as they try to add in backstory to him, what we get is just this arrogant a*****. Entertaining by all means and frankly as a villain, I expect nothing less. But seriously, Dio's character has been done better in similar circumstances. Such as Diego Brando from Steel Ball Run. At that point, Dio felt like a real character and not just something to further the plot. It's not something I can really say is "bad" against Phantom Blood, it makes for a nice if not typical shounen villain. I agree, the first 3 or so episodes involving Dio and Jonathan's childhood is good. It's the time where we see some real character development. As far as Speedwagon goes. the guy doesn't do anything of any merit. He starts off as this low key thug that suddenly becomes nice because Jonathan's nice to him and that's it. The moment we meet Polnareff, we know he's an honorable fighter searching out for revenge against the man with two right hands who violated and killed his sister. At the moment, we know more about Polnareff than we ever knew about Speedwagon. Avdol, if only a lesser case, is the same. We know exactly who Avdol is when he's introduced and we get a good idea of his character as he plays a much larger, more direct role than Speedwagon did. I don't disagree that his death and sudden return feels half assed. I don't mind him coming back really but it seems too soon. Especially when he's going to die an even more worthless death later on. Speedwagon's biggest problem is that he simply doesn't stand out. He is a minor character, stepping in the shoes of a secondary character. Which he plays quite well in Part II. There he's not the focus and our secondary cast can focus on people like Ceasar. A guy who actually feels like a supporting character. You could literally take Part I Speedwagon out of the picture and nothing would not change. It would be like if Part II Smokey was running around with the main cast, doing nothing but giving quips. He's fine as a simple minor character, but he has no business being with the main cast.
Stardust Crusaders should literally have been half as long as it was. The only characters that have any real plot relevance are. 1.) Kakyoin 2.) Polnareff 4.) Tower of Gray (who gets us into this Stand List mess to start) 5.) J. Geil+Hol Horse 6. Enyaba 7.) Vanilla Ice 8. N'Doul (Not so him as it is introducing Iggy) 9.) DIO Everyone else is useless and pointless and does nothing more than pad out the running time. Now some of these fights are good. The battle with Elder D'arby might be pointless and doesn't further the plot but its so fun I'm not going to hold it against it. The same thing with Oingo Boingo, Death 13 and Petshop. There's a unique touch to them that, again while they don't further the pot, are fun. It's the same way I feel about Part 4's Antonio. Pointless battle but unique enough to stand out. However... Dark Blue Moon, Ebony Devil, Yellow Temperance, Empress, High Priestess, Strength, Anubis, Set, Bastet, Judgement, Lovers, The Sun, Wheel of Fortune. All of these battles have no point and a good portion of them aren't even unique. This is especially true with the ones focused on Jotaro. No longer is it about quick thinking that we saw in Part II. Here, it's all a matter of punching it hard enough until you win. This should have been a 26 episode series. All major plot points could've been done there, from J. Geil to the final battle with DIO and if there's anything left, have fun and put whatever you want. A good example of how bad this got in Part 3 is "The Sun" which in the manga, is basically a chapter. It's like 22 pages or something. Here, it's a whopping whole episode of our heroes just standing around getting sunburned. The most memorable part of the whole thing is everyone chuckling like maniacs where Kakyoin looks like he's having a fit or something. Part 4 managed to alleviate this a bit by having more aspects of material shown in one episode instead of dragging it out. |
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| + Steve | Sep 19 2017, 08:02 PM Post #11 |
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I think maybe 30 episodes would have been fine for Stardust Crusaders, you still have to give the feel of the adventure to it so it requires a lot of the camaraderie to that end. Also gotta fit in plenty of Old Joseph's Engrish. Overall I think it does a good job introducing Stands to the series but it's a bit of a massive dump of things that could have fit in later. The idea behind Strength, a Stand that's a huge freaking ship is pretty cool but the way it plays out is meh, that could have been saved for a later part...maybe without the orangutan too. |
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
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