Should a pedophile be able to make movies?

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Should a pedophile be able to make movies?; 'Jeepers Creepers' director Victor Salva
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 30 2017, 05:43 AM (2,418 Views)
Tinny	Aug 30 2017, 07:36 PM Post #31
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Overly Facetious Goblin Aug 30 2017, 07:30 PM Can you run that by me again? Because I'm really not understanding your point. My entire point has been keep proven pedophiles away from children. That's it. The original point that began this whole conversation as I see it was Quote: Pedophiles don't just "change" with rehabilitation and therapy. Yes, they can suppress their desires, but it never just goes away. It's a horrible crime to prey upon children, and you guys are comparing it to thievery, which is just asinine. False dichotomy. To which I think Steve's points are perfectly valid, though from what I can tell you've conceded the point and just think they shouldn't be left alone with children? Admittedly while I'm somewhat iffy on that 30 years after the fact (I highly doubt that a rapist of women is legally required to keep themselves from being alone with a woman, though it's not necessarily uncommon for such a thing), it's certainly a much better solution than trying to bar them from the work force, which I constantly see being suggested. Quote: Oh, I don't know, maybe his random comparison to homosexuality? I'm not the only one who had that impression reading through his posts. It's a small part of a larger post in which it's almost always assumed that the pedophile in question is a former convict that was jailed for child rape, so I'm still confused honestly. Maybe it might be confusing on a skim, but I just don't see how you would mistake his post talking about convicted rapists for talking about all pedophiles. Edited by Tinny, Aug 30 2017, 07:39 PM.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Aug 30 2017, 07:40 PM Post #32
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	Quote: To which I think Steve's points are perfectly valid, though from what I can tell you've conceded the point and just think they shouldn't be left alone with children? Conceded what point? That's always been the point. lol I still stand by this, if that's what you are asking: Quote: Pedophiles don't just "change" with rehabilitation and therapy. Yes, they can suppress their desires, but it never just goes away. It's a horrible crime to prey upon children, and you guys are comparing it to thievery, which is just asinine. False dichotomy.



Daemon Keido	Aug 30 2017, 07:45 PM Post #33
Warmaster of Chaos Posts: 3,915 Group: RP Moderator Member #6,491 Joined: July 16, 2011 Gender Male Country Canada Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, of course Favourite Manga Currently Toriko	I would point out that thieves tend to never stop stealing but that doesn't really add enough to the discussion on its own. Just so that we can be absolutely clear on this, are you saying he should be prevented from ever making movies period or just ones where children would be on set?
	A Shadow is merely Darkness in the presence of Light Thanks Kid Buu for this awesome sig! The Emperor Protects


~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Aug 30 2017, 07:48 PM Post #34
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	I never said anything about him being prevented from making movies at all. Again, I reiterate: proven pedophiles should not be allowed near children.



Tinny	Aug 30 2017, 07:49 PM Post #35
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Overly Facetious Goblin Aug 30 2017, 07:40 PM Quote: To which I think Steve's points are perfectly valid, though from what I can tell you've conceded the point and just think they shouldn't be left alone with children? Conceded what point? That's always been the point. lol I still stand by this, if that's what you are asking: Quote: Pedophiles don't just "change" with rehabilitation and therapy. Yes, they can suppress their desires, but it never just goes away. It's a horrible crime to prey upon children, and you guys are comparing it to thievery, which is just asinine. False dichotomy. These points. They lay down all these implications Steve is bringing up, particularly regarding them never changing and the point of the law's sentencing if that is indeed the case. You seem to be avoiding answering these questions specifically. So... I think it should be fair to ask you to answer those in regards to your statement regarding the idea that they don't change with rehabilitation and therapy, and the fact that them suppressing their desires isn't enough for you. Quote: In reference to what I said you presented that like all murderers are the same and by extension all paedophiles are the same and that any of their actions are forever to be deemed unforgivable...so what the crap is the point in the law then? Why do we bother putting anyone in prison if they're never rehabilitated enough to be in society again? Quote: Extend your astounding logic to paedophiles then, if you put one in a room with a bunch of kids they'd automatically just go rabid and attack them? They can't possibly learn from their mistakes and choose not to do anything or not even feel a desire to? Quote: You're basically saying anyone who does something bad is condemned to always be on the verge of doing it again and what possible proof do you have for that being the case with paedophiles specifically? "Muh fallacies and muh dichotomies!" isn't an argument, explain what is so different when it comes to paedophiles versus anything else and why people can't ever move on from anything they did versus anything else. 'cause all it really is is how you look at paedophilia in your head, not the law or anything to do with the system. Edited by Tinny, Aug 30 2017, 07:50 PM.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


Daemon Keido	Aug 30 2017, 07:53 PM Post #36
Warmaster of Chaos Posts: 3,915 Group: RP Moderator Member #6,491 Joined: July 16, 2011 Gender Male Country Canada Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, of course Favourite Manga Currently Toriko	Overly Facetious Goblin Aug 30 2017, 07:48 PM I never said anything about him being prevented from making movies at all. Again, I reiterate: proven pedophiles should not be allowed near children. So only prevented from making movies where children are on set. Fair enough on that one.
	A Shadow is merely Darkness in the presence of Light Thanks Kid Buu for this awesome sig! The Emperor Protects


~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Aug 30 2017, 08:12 PM Post #37
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	I'd really rather not keeping getting into it, but if you insist, I suppose I could play your game for a bit longer. Although it feels a bit like banging my own head against the wall. Quote: In reference to what I said you presented that like all murderers are the same and by extension all paedophiles are the same and that any of their actions are forever to be deemed unforgivable...so what the crap is the point in the law then? Why do we bother putting anyone in prison if they're never rehabilitated enough to be in society again? I never stated or even insinuated that all murderers and pedophiles are the same. Show me where I said this, please. Keep in mind that this man only received 18 months in a correctional facility for molesting children. Yes, it was a long time ago, but the law is hardly the end-all-be-all in such matters. I also never said that no criminal can ever be rehabilitated; I said that no pedophile can ever be truly rehabilitated. I agree with you that it is a sexual orientation. A disgusting one, but one nonetheless. Rehabilitating a pedophile is a lot like attempting to rehabilitate someone sexually interested in animals, or balloons, or something else deemed strange or immoral by society. They can't change the way their brain is wired, and unfortunately it's wired wrong. Quote: Extend your astounding logic to paedophiles then, if you put one in a room with a bunch of kids they'd automatically just go rabid and attack them? No, but comparing pedophiles to murderers is--again--a false dichotomy, and I've already explained why. Quote: They can't possibly learn from their mistakes and choose not to do anything or not even feel a desire to? Sure they can. Never said that they couldn't. But I still don't think that pedophiles that have committed a criminal sex act should be allowed near children. Quote: You're basically saying anyone who does something bad is condemned to always be on the verge of doing it again and what possible proof do you have for that being the case with paedophiles specifically? That isn't what I said, but you're free to keep assuming things if you'd like. Once a pedophile, always a pedophile. They can suppress their desires, sure. I never said that wasn't possible. I just don't want them around children. How many times does that need to be said? Quote: "Muh fallacies and muh dichotomies!" isn't an argument, Not really, but when you're using a fallacy, your argument is automatically invalidated. Quote: explain what is so different when it comes to paedophiles versus anything else and why people can't ever move on from anything they did versus anything else. Anything else and everything else and do wot now? Sorry, I'm not following this run-on. Quote: 'cause all it really is is how you look at paedophilia in your head, not the law or anything to do with the system. Sure. Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Aug 30 2017, 08:12 PM.



Darker	Aug 30 2017, 08:32 PM Post #38
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,358 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Daemon Keido Aug 30 2017, 07:53 PM Overly Facetious Goblin Aug 30 2017, 07:48 PM I never said anything about him being prevented from making movies at all. Again, I reiterate: proven pedophiles should not be allowed near children. So only prevented from making movies where children are on set. Fair enough on that one. I think that should be extended to: "Keep the children supervised if they are part of one of his movies." Because thinking about his movies and how the vast majority are horror, I imagine he'd need a creepy kid for one of them sooner or later (since that's how horror movies roll these days) but also because my favourite horror movie of his, Clownhouse, features very interesting child characters (Powder, another movie of his, does as well to be fair), and since he was good at it, he might try to use more interesting child characters in the future. Said movie was also part of this child offending incident, so yeah, better to take no risks and not leave him alone with any child. I still can't understand why this was brought up with a Jeepers Creepers screening, though. Despite the light sentence he still admitted that he did wrong long before he even made the first Jeepers Creepers movie. Is this just for publicity sake?
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


Tinny	Aug 30 2017, 08:35 PM Post #39
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	I feel the need to specifically comment on these two. Quote: Not really, but when you're using a fallacy, your argument is automatically invalidated. An argument and position is not immediately invalidated by the presence of a fallacy, it is merely a flaw in reasoning, and the rest of an argument can still be valid. To say that the argument is automatically invalid leans to, if not is outright, a fallacy fallacy in of itself. Quote: Rehabilitating a pedophile is a lot like attempting to rehabilitate someone sexually interested in animals, or balloons, or something else deemed strange or immoral by society. They can't change the way their brain is wired, and unfortunately it's wired wrong. This I need to comment on again, as the implication is a tad disturbing of you further analyse it. Pedophiles are not inherently rapists. Rape fetishists aren't inherently rapists. Other "disturbing" fetishes, such as a scat fetish does not necessarily mean that they will be incapable of behaving themselves and acting according to morality. To say that because of how their brain is wired, actions must be taken and rehabilitation can never truly work, leaves an implication that guilt is not necessary either for them to be kept away from whatever, because the problem is their brain. I realize you mean specifically people who were child rapists, but this general line of thinking also targets those who can control themselves and act with morality, not just the rapists.
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+ Steve	Aug 30 2017, 08:56 PM Post #40
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Quote: I never stated or even insinuated that all murderers and pedophiles are the same. Show me where I said this, please. No... Quote: Pedophiles don't just "change" with rehabilitation and therapy. Yes, they can suppress their desires, but it never just goes away. It's a horrible crime to prey upon children, and you guys are comparing it to thievery, which is just asinine. False dichotomy. You insinuated that they can never change their ways and I used your logic for murderers, that you wouldn't say a murderer should never be allowed near people again after serving their sentence because that makes no sense. How is that not insinuating that they're all the same, all hopeless? That they're all just going to do it again and don't feel guilty? Quote: I also never said that no criminal can ever be rehabilitated; I said that no pedophile can ever be truly rehabilitated. I agree with you that it is a sexual orientation. A disgusting one, but one nonetheless. Rehabilitating a pedophile is a lot like attempting to rehabilitate someone sexually interested in animals, or balloons, or something else deemed strange or immoral by society. They can't change the way their brain is wired, and unfortunately it's wired wrong. Obviously they can't just not be a paedophile any more in the same way someone can't just not be gay any more of have it electroshocked out of of them. But that doesn't mean they're automatically a ticking time bomb does it? Why is it impossible for them to go celibate? Quote: No, but comparing pedophiles to murderers is--again--a false dichotomy, and I've already explained why. I'm not comparing them I'm swapping the crimes around, why can murderers be dealt with but not paedophiles? Who decides this? You can argue one is worse than the other but this is about the punishment, why is a punishment for a paedophile never enough? If the law has no fairness to it, again what's the point in it at all? Quote: That isn't what I said, but you're free to keep assuming things if you'd like. Sort of like what you've done for everything I've said. Quote: Not really, but when you're using a fallacy, your argument is automatically invalidated. Just because you didn't get what I was saying doesn't mean it's a fallacy and all wrong, the whole "fallacy" crap is the most limp argument ever, it's not an argument at all really, it's basically no different from just saying "you're wrong" and if you can't demonstrate how someone is actually wrong you can throw every fallacy in the book out there but it means nothing. Have you ever said "Strawman!" and had someone go "Holy s*** yeah I'm totally wrong!"?? Tinny clearly got generally where I was coming from, is he just a complete idiot or were you thinking about it completely the wrong way? Quote: Anything else and everything else and do wot now? Sorry, I'm not following this run-on. Why can paedophiles in particular never be forgiven for their mistakes and move on when virtually everyone else can? At what point do you deem them to have suffered enough versus every other sex offender? Why be particularly unfair towards them? The whole point in prison is to punish people for their crimes and re-work them in to society a better person(barring life sentences) but paedophiles are an exception because...because? Not that you have to like them. Edited by Steve, Aug 30 2017, 09:01 PM.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Aug 30 2017, 09:21 PM Post #41
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	Meh. I can't have a conversation like this with the inconversable. This man is a child sex offender. This discussion is about pedophiles who molest or rape children. Discussion should have ended long ago, as there's nothing much to be said about that kind of person.



+ Steve	Aug 30 2017, 10:13 PM Post #42
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Overly Facetious Goblin Aug 30 2017, 09:21 PM This discussion is about pedophiles who have previously molested or raped children and done time for it. Correction. This isn't about people who actively do it it's people who've already done it years ago. Someone who has already done something like this will always be punished in some forms, just being a registered sex offender changes your whole life well after any prison time never mind when it's children involved. Why is it never enough for a paedophile? Hate what they did for sure but there's no logical reason why they should be punished more than anyone else or is it the definitive ultimate crime? Just because he's still a director doesn't mean his life isn't ruined in other ways. I'll bet he never gets sex he doesn't pay for for one thing, his family probably hate him, clearly many members of the public always will too. Also I feel it's probably worth mentioning what he did anyway: Details on what he did, nothing super explicit but spoilering anyway Quote: The movie is about three young brothers who are terrorized by a bunch of deranged escaped mental patients dressed in clown costumes. The youngest of the brothers, Casey, was played by 12-year-old Nathan Forrest Winters. During filming, Salva kept Winters behind on set, where he secretly filmed himself forcing the kid to give and receive oral sex. When Winters told his parents about the abuse, the authorities raided Vincent Salva's house. They found enough pornographic material of children -- including the tapes of 12-year-old Winters being molested -- to sentence Salva to three years in prison, of which he served 15 months. Taken from https://moviepilot.com/posts/3565740 If he had a dungeon full of children he abused then definitely he should have been in prison the rest of his life but that's not the case and he did his time and it'll impact his whole life. How much he deserves is opinion.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


+ Saiyan Paladin	Aug 31 2017, 01:49 AM Post #43
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	As long as children aren't involved in the movie, I guess they can make one. Don't know how many people are actually going to volunteer to work for a known pedophile, though. Edited by Saiyan Paladin, Aug 31 2017, 01:50 AM.



Darker	Aug 31 2017, 01:57 AM Post #44
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,358 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Paladin Aug 31 2017, 01:49 AM Don't know how many people are actually going to volunteer to work for a known pedophile, though. ...Plenty of people, because these are old news. This was way before Jeepers Creepers 1 and 2, and those made a lot of money and got pretty decent reviews.
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


+ Clearin	Aug 31 2017, 02:17 AM Post #45
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	For a child molester if they're out of prison then I don't see why they couldn't make a movie, as long as they're never left unsupervised with children. There's no correlation between making a movie and molesting children; He could make an amazing movie regardless of his crimes. Whether or not people would agree to help him with it, or if people would choose to watch it is another matter that would depend on the person. For just pedophiles, as in attraction to pre-pubescent children, then I don't think they should really be judged for anything except having some extremely bad luck in the sexuality lottery.



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