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- BoDBZ Yamcha (Kaioken x100) and Saiyan arc Krillin (Kaioken x4) vs Vegeta and Nappa
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| BoDBZ Yamcha (Kaioken x100) and Saiyan arc Krillin (Kaioken x4) vs Vegeta and Nappa; Kame House human team fighting against the Saiyan invaders. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 25 2017, 11:52 AM (544 Views) | |
| Thiln | Aug 25 2017, 11:52 AM Post #1 |
 
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  VS   Some noticeable variations exist with the amplificative amounts between the Kaioken numbers for both characters. I specifically used these iterations so that they would best match up to the power levels of their opponents. Yamcha with a Kaioken x100 at the beginning of Z would come out with a power level of 17,700. Using the official number for Krillin after training with Kami, a Kaioken x4 would put him at 7080. The Kaioken multipliers are perfectly maintainable for the humans. However, they can't go any higher. Restrictions include planetary destruction and transforming into Oozaru. The setting is the same where the Z-Warriors confronted the Saiyans in the manga. Who wins? Scenario 2: Tien arrives as reinforcements using his own Kaioken x4 (official numbers apply but the Kaioken is perfectly maintainable). Oozaru Raditz is given to the Saiyans. His tail can't be cut off. Does anything change? |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 25 2017, 01:11 PM Post #2 |
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Scenario 1: Interesting match-up. Nappa is fodder if they both target him to begin with, however if Vegeta is with Nappa from the beginning this could be very interesting. I still think the Saiyans take it because they have higher stamina and skill (especially Vegeta). I think Vegeta can keep Nappa cool through the fight. Scenario 2: So Tenshinhan would be at 6000 give or take, while Oozaru Raditz would be 12,500. I think this is an even bigger defeat for the humans, especially if the tail can't be cut off. Edited by Emmeth, Aug 25 2017, 01:12 PM.
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| Notaka | Aug 25 2017, 01:23 PM Post #3 |
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Round 1:Both Saiyans are stronger than their opponent. Vegeta has 18,000 which is higher than Yamcha's 17,700, and Nappa was able to fight somewhat evenly against Goku who has 8,000. Team Saiyan wins 8/10. Round 2:Assuming Tien was 1,830(which is logical since he was stronger than a Saibamen), a Kaioken x4 would bring him to 7,320 making him more of a match to Nappa then Krillin is. Oozaru Raditz is too strong for Tien and Krillin, and the only one that could beat him is Yamcha. However, Yamcha would have his hand full with Vegeta, while either Tien and Krillin would fight against Nappa, leaving the remaining one to deal with Raditz. But, the humans could potentially win by using Raditz against his teammates assuming he goes out of control in his great ape form. Raditz could kill Nappa, forcing Vegeta to kill him since he can't cut his tail. With Vegeta only remaining, The Trio might be able to kill him due to their number advantage and having Yamcha who is almost as strong as Vegeta is. But that is only a possibility. Saiyan Team wins 7/10 |
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| Decibel | Aug 25 2017, 02:11 PM Post #4 |
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Nappa and Vegeta are both better fighters then Yamcha. Krillin being the weaker one of the two in this set up puts him in a supporing role with no bite to the team. By the time Krillin puts down Nappa, if he does, Yamcha is already done in by Vegeta. Tien doesnt help against vegeta unless hes the captain. |
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| Thiln | Aug 25 2017, 03:49 PM Post #5 |
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I don't get it. How is Vegeta more skilled than Yamcha? Can some tangible feats be offered? The power disparity between Vegeta and Yamcha here is a little bit less than the one between Goku and Piccolo at the 23rd tournament. Some are even proposing that Nappa is better. How? He's one of the most gullible fighters introduced. Here I suspected Krillin's trickery would compensate for the small gap between him and Nappa. Apparently the sentiment wasn't shared. |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 25 2017, 05:26 PM Post #6 |
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Vegeta was trained from young age to be a warrior and Nappa was a general of the Saiyan army. They both showcased great skill in the fight against the Zet-Senshi, especially Vegeta against Goku. |
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| Thiln | Aug 25 2017, 05:36 PM Post #7 |
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Yes, Vegeta was offered the best resources his species had to offer, yet his life up until facing the greatest martial calamity of his career on Earth was comprised of garnering moderate gains of power over a time span entering the decades and frequently locking horns with an alien fighter who preferred shying away behind Freeza's skirt for an indeterminate period of time. And given the structuring of the Saiyan society and their emphasis on individualistic skirmishes, I don't get much of an impression from Nappa being a general. I'm asking for on-screen combat feats that correlate to their dexterity being greater than normal, not power dominance or transformations, basic fundamental skill. Edited by Thiln, Aug 25 2017, 05:37 PM.
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| Decibel | Aug 25 2017, 08:29 PM Post #8 |
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Yamcha is one of the only fighters in the series who has actually been described as sloppy, flashy, getting too cocky, wasteul movement in his wolf style, not keeping a good guard up/leaving his legs open, etc. Also because this isn't Yamcha at his best equal power level to Vegeta. Yamcha BoZ hasnt even been to kamis yet to fix any of these issues The wolf fang fist style in general is a bad martial art. Vegeta ln the other hand has been praised by everyone on and off the battlefield. The worst someone has to say about him is Whis going on about how he sometimes thinks too much about every attack. Thats a fault that only becomes a hinderance at the god tier. Edited by Decibel, Aug 25 2017, 08:34 PM.
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| Dan The Commentator | Aug 26 2017, 12:24 AM Post #9 |
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Scenario 1: I suppose we're supposed to pretend that the earthlings suffer no strain from their Kaioken usage? In that case, team Earth should win just because of a collective power advantage. Yamcha is within spitting distance of Vegeta's full power, and he has the added benefit of being able to manipulate his battle power at will and sense ki. Despite this, Vegeta is skilled, ruthlessly efficient, and pretty durable, being a Saiyan and all. Kuririn, on the other hand has a pretty large power advantage against Nappa, in addition to the same ki control advantages mentioned above. Even for a Saiyan, Nappa is built like a tank so he won't fall easily, but I'd say that skill will prevail over toughness. Scenario 2: Adding in x4 Tenshinhan and Oozaru Raditz puts odds in favor of the Saiyan team. Oozaru Raditz is almost as strong as Vegeta and Yamcha are, and Kuririn and Tenshinhan aren't strong enough to properly participate in such a battle. The only way they can win is if Raditz can't control himself in Oozaru form and attacks everyone indiscriminately. If he keeps his wits about him, the Saiyans steamroll the earthlings. |
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| Thiln | Aug 26 2017, 08:19 AM Post #10 |
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I've only ever seen two excerpts from the original manga that cite anything apart from Vegeta's power, the first being when Goku describes his speed and "technique" as surpassing his own. But if you look at the actual choreography from which Goku was inspired to make this remark, does it really any more impressive or complex than what Yamcha was doing against Tien at the 22nd tournament? Spoiler: click to toggle Can you tell me if Vegeta's form looks any more impressive? Vegeta's advantageous performance was being dictated in large part to his superior power level (power correlates to speed). The second compliment had to do with Vegeta successfully bluffing his way through a potential confrontation with Gero where he might have been at a disadvantage because of his depleted stamina. Well we've seen instances of strategic improvisation from Yamcha as well. Remember his ploy to lure Bulma and Oolong out of the House Wagon and away from the Dragonballs? It required coordination with Puar and perfect timing to compensate for Yamcha's hormonal weaknesses. I find it's arguably more impressive than lying your way through a fight. Moreover, I pulled up the criticisms concerning Yamcha's style from the original Dragon Ball. The first was unnecessary movement - supposedly Yamcha's manoeuvres were too excessive and wasteful. Okay, but if you'll recall Vegeta's various instances of food play and indulging his opponents, you'll know that he's easily prone to making unnecessary combat judgements himself. Plus, have you seen the kinds of attacks he uses? Many of them to be compactly power and rapidity based with not too much finesse added to them. I also noticed these criticisms towards Yamcha coming from fighters with greatly superior power relative to his own. Did we see Goku poke holes at his form? What about the Mummy Man? Tien? Yamcha used the Wolf Fang Fist in those fights. It was hardly "flashy". We've hardly seen it get used against anyone who wasn't tiers stronger than Yamcha. Besides, how is this any different to Vegeta losing his composure because things aren't going his way and attempting to blow up the planet he's fighting on during two different fights, both of which would have resulted in his own death? The second grievance has to do with his legwork. Well if you'll look closely at the above exchange between Yamcha and Tien, it would show his legs and feet are being diligently put into motion, both as offensive implements and to defend himself against Tien's own strikes. I would sooner ascribe Yamcha's sloppy legwork against Hero as a byproduct of him becoming flustered after being humiliated rather than his general combat style being inherently sloppy or flawed. |
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| ahill1 | Aug 26 2017, 09:00 AM Post #11 |
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Vegeta and Yamcha are pretty close to each other, with a small advantage to the Saiyan. Yamcha has a vaster array of techniques, but I think such wouldn't make him succeed in taking down Vegeta, whose durability allowed him to withstand attacks far stronger than himself. Yamcha can sense chi, but I question its precision at that moment in time, since he (as well as the other's humans) probably sharpened it way more upon receiving Kami and Mr. Popo's training. Vegeta's toughness and pretty good amplification through the Gyarikku Ho (which stalemated Goku's KMHMH) would give him the win against Yamcha, who probably lacks that big of an amplification to content with Vegeta in a beam struggle. Not to mention Vegeta's armor, which is made from a pretty resistent material and surprised even those aliens when they saw it shattered. Goku, whose power level was over 8,000 stated his fight with Nappa could take forever, and based on Vegeta's insistance that a calm Nappa could take down Goku, I doubt Kuririn, with a BP noticeably below 8000 could take the Saiyan down, unless he cuts the "brute" Saiyan with a Kienzan, which might be possible considering Nappa seemed prone to take such attack head on until Vegeta advised him about it. But overall, I am inclined to say the Saiyans have got this more times than not, probably all times if we don't count Nappa deciding to take the Kienzan head on. Edited by ahill1, Aug 26 2017, 09:16 AM.
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| + Saiyan Paladin | Aug 26 2017, 06:35 PM Post #12 |
 
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I think Krillin could take down Nappa here without much trouble. Hell, he almost beheaded Nappa without Kaio-Ken. I don't see Yamcha overcoming Vegeta here. The latter's durability and supposed superior technique is enough to ensure he wins here. Adding Ten might make things interesting. If Nappa and Raditz were somehow dealt with, I could see a Kikoho doing some damage to Vegeta. The human trio could manage a victory here, but everything would have to be perfect. Saiyans win 8/10. Not a bad matchup. |
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| Seaweed | Aug 27 2017, 10:09 AM Post #13 |
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Scenario 1: I'm not quite sure who wins this fight, honestly, though to make it easier I'm currently assuming that Vegeta will prevent Yamcha from instantly taking Nappa and Yamcha will likewise prevent Vegeta from instantly taking out Nappa. Vegeta's a tiny bit stronger than Yamcha, but I doubt the power difference is going to matter. That said, while Yamcha's got the spirit ball in addition to the Kamehameha, and could likely use it to inflict some amount of damage to Vegeta, Vegeta seems tougher, either naturally or due to his armor, as he could continue to fight after being hit with a KKx4 Kamehameha, so I think Vegeta would eventually win after a long slugging match. As for Krillin vs Nappa, I have them around the same level of power (with Krillin likely being stronger), given that Nappa, once he calmed down, was doing okay against a Goku with a powerlevel of above 8000. However, in terms of techniques, Krillin knows both the Kamehameha, the Kienzan and probably the Solar Flare as well, while Nappa only has his mouth-beam, which I doubt is as good as the Kamehameha. Furthermore, while Nappa is a stupid brute, Krillin has been using some nifty tricks in the budokais. Therefore, I think Krillin is going to win against Nappa, though whether or not he'd be in a condition to help against Vegeta depends on whether he wins after a long match or whether he quickly wins with a trick and/or technique. If Yamcha can keep Vegeta's attention occupied, there's a rather high chance that Krillin is simply going to Kienzan Nappa in half, though given that this Krillin would a bit stronger than Nappa he might not be cocky enough to try to tank the Kienzan this time. Furthermore, if Krillin can maneuver Nappa into a position where he could hit the saiyan with a full power Kamehameha, that should also win the fight, though it might leave Krillin too exhausted to be of much use against Vegeta. That said, Krillin might not be the only one capable of taking out Nappa, because even though I doubt Vegeta's just going to let Yamcha knock Nappa out, the spirit ball might very well allow him to take out Nappa while still keeping Vegeta occupied. So, if Krillin or Yamcha manage to take out Nappa before Krillin gets exhausted, which I think they have a high chance of doing, they'll most likely win the fight, either with a Kienzan or with Krillin taking out an exhausted Vegeta, so I think I'll give it to the earthlings 7-8 times out of 10. Scenario 2: (Assuming that Raditz will not attack Vegeta and Nappa even if he can't otherwise control himself) Even as an Oozaru, Raditz would be too slow to hit anyone, especially not Yamcha, unless they were distracted, so Tien and Krillin would likely have a rather easy time taking out Nappa. However, while I think Tien and Krillin can beat Nappa before Yamcha gets beaten by Raditz and Vegeta, Yamcha's probably going to be more exhausted than Vegeta this time around. That said, Oozaru Raditz is both mindless and pretty slow, so a Kienzan through the brain (or some sort of attack targeting his eyes and rendering him blind) should deal with Raditz, and Tenshinhan, Krillin and Yamcha can then beat Vegeta together (Tenshinhan and Krillin contributing by either using Kienzan, Kikoho or Solar Flare). So, unless Vegeta and Raditz manage to squash Yamcha before Tenshinhan and Krillin beat Nappa, the earthlings should win. |
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