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The Great Religious Debate of 2017
Topic Started: Jul 28 2017, 01:49 PM (13,399 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96
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Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 2 2017, 08:33 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Aug 2 2017, 06:12 PM
Yeah? Well you're a living meme and Bryan is a QUACK
So I'm assuming you don't have a rebuttal. lol
It was actually just my epic way of saying I don't care anymore I'm out. It was a joke I hope you didn't actually get offended lol
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I wasn't offended; I just wondered if there was a part of you that was frustrated.

Nice post, Strawberry! I agree that having personal experiences is the most compelling argument for Christianity because at least then they're being honest about why they actually believe, but yeah, it's still not a strong argument and can easily be disproved once you get into chemicals in the brain, different emotional states, endorphins, etc.
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Strawberry
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Chiaroscuro ♥

Oh yeah. And there's also something to be said about having knowledge as a primal human need in relation to the way we've come to culturally framework the concept of happiness because in many ways that is tied into the creation of every religion that has ever surfaced and also the reason(s) why subsequently they've seen their impact reduced and their role in society secularized. It's quite a complex matter, but very generally speaking the quest for knowledge starts primarily from a sense of survivalism, and evolves gradually into a very intricate field of signification and meaning-making that is rooted very deeply at the basis of human communication and it's what makes us able to comprehend and interact not only with each other, but with the world around us -- this is called Semiotics in human sciences and is in my opinion one of the most relevant and fascinating subjects anyone who is interested in the human mind can learn about.
The need to culturally construct an all-knowing entity or device lies somewhere along that spectrum of knowledge and inevitably begins to fall short upon the emergence and development of means that can actually provide a structured empirical way to obtain the same knowledge -- which I say is the state we're currently at for the most part, religion holds a lot of power and influence still, but is nowhere near as predominant as it used to be and continues to decline with each new generation (and if History is anything to go by, which well... it is, it will definitely continue to do so).

That's loosely in the same vein as sailors in the age of discovery deeply believing and even documenting encounters with mermaids and all sorts of underwater creatures in seas yet to clear, having everybody believing in it, and later finding out they just didn't have either a well-defined route, enough technical/material means to sustain the trip or simply the navigation skills required to get to land.

Again, this is all ridiculouslyyyyy simplified, so bear with me. But still quite a pertinent angle to look at this topic and contextualize it imo.
Edited by Strawberry, Aug 2 2017, 11:06 PM.

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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Yeah I definitely agree there, it's not "evidence" for anyone to say that they've felt the presence of God or whatever since only they really apparently experienced that.

It could certainly be true, a lie or they could just be crazy but all of those make a lot more sense than "God is real because it's written in this book"

The Bible would be believable if it was special in any way but it is just a book, you can burn it, rip it or ruin it in water like any other book. If an original untouched Bible that couldn't be destroyed existed then that would certainly be considerable evidence.


Still. Personal experience is just that, personal.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a ghost in my life but with no way to prove that the belief is down to me and what I think happened. Content with ghost but few people would believe it 100%.


I believe in ghosts but not God for I have absolutely no reason to, there's nothing God like going on in this world to suggest there is one.
Other than Dwayne Johnson's rock hard abs. Fetch that damn baby oil.
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Steve
Aug 2 2017, 11:10 PM
Yeah I definitely agree there, it's not "evidence" for anyone to say that they've felt the presence of God or whatever since only they really apparently experienced that.

It could certainly be true, a lie or they could just be crazy but all of those make a lot more sense than "God is real because it's written in this book"

The Bible would be believable if it was special in any way but it is just a book, you can burn it, rip it or ruin it in water like any other book. If an original untouched Bible that couldn't be destroyed existed then that would certainly be considerable evidence.


Still. Personal experience is just that, personal.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a ghost in my life but with no way to prove that the belief is down to me and what I think happened. Content with ghost but few people would believe it 100%.


I believe in ghosts but not God for I have absolutely no reason to, there's nothing God like going on in this world to suggest there is one.
Other than Dwayne Johnson's rock hard abs. Fetch that damn baby oil.
So if i write a book about me wining the lottery is not true because the book can be burned to ashes :o_O:


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Geralt of Rivia
Aug 3 2017, 05:22 PM
Steve
Aug 2 2017, 11:10 PM
Yeah I definitely agree there, it's not "evidence" for anyone to say that they've felt the presence of God or whatever since only they really apparently experienced that.

It could certainly be true, a lie or they could just be crazy but all of those make a lot more sense than "God is real because it's written in this book"

The Bible would be believable if it was special in any way but it is just a book, you can burn it, rip it or ruin it in water like any other book. If an original untouched Bible that couldn't be destroyed existed then that would certainly be considerable evidence.


Still. Personal experience is just that, personal.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a ghost in my life but with no way to prove that the belief is down to me and what I think happened. Content with ghost but few people would believe it 100%.


I believe in ghosts but not God for I have absolutely no reason to, there's nothing God like going on in this world to suggest there is one.
Other than Dwayne Johnson's rock hard abs. Fetch that damn baby oil.
So if i write a book about me wining the lottery is not true because the book can be burned to ashes :o_O:

False equivalency.

He mentioned the book burning to ashes because it is widely considered to be a "holy" book gifted to humans by God; he's saying that if a bible was indestructible he would be more inclined to believe in the Christian god.

Your book about the lottery has absolutely nothing to do with his argument.

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Strawberry
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I agree that's not a valid argument, but if that's an angle you want to push I guess one could make the parallel that you writing a book about winning the lottery indeed doesn't prove you've won the lottery. If you write that book and someone for some reason doubts you (and that reason here is totally irrelevant, so let's just roll with this), asks you to prove it and you can't show any receipt, bill, invoice (=substantial, founded evidence) then the book alone won't hold any significant meaning as proof that you've won the lottery.

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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Yeah there's nothing miraculous or beyond the norm in the world for me to have any reason to believe.

Nobody has any reason to believe based on personal experiences they haven't had.

Something that just doesn't make sense like an indestructible Bible would have merit as being to do with God but there's literally nothing like that in the world, just words about things that allegedly happened which in no way constitute as actual evidence.


So I ask why God hasn't left a constant mark on the world, all we have are the experiences/stories told by other humans but absolutely any able bodied/minded human has the capacity to make something up.

Why does God expect us to believe other people when people are so full of crap, Tumblr has a bucket load of totally true stories that clearly aren't "And everybody clapped"

Humans are unreliable sources of facts most of the time, hence why you'll never win a court case with just an eye witness.
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Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 3 2017, 05:40 PM
Geralt of Rivia
Aug 3 2017, 05:22 PM
Steve
Aug 2 2017, 11:10 PM
Yeah I definitely agree there, it's not "evidence" for anyone to say that they've felt the presence of God or whatever since only they really apparently experienced that.

It could certainly be true, a lie or they could just be crazy but all of those make a lot more sense than "God is real because it's written in this book"

The Bible would be believable if it was special in any way but it is just a book, you can burn it, rip it or ruin it in water like any other book. If an original untouched Bible that couldn't be destroyed existed then that would certainly be considerable evidence.


Still. Personal experience is just that, personal.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a ghost in my life but with no way to prove that the belief is down to me and what I think happened. Content with ghost but few people would believe it 100%.


I believe in ghosts but not God for I have absolutely no reason to, there's nothing God like going on in this world to suggest there is one.
Other than Dwayne Johnson's rock hard abs. Fetch that damn baby oil.
So if i write a book about me wining the lottery is not true because the book can be burned to ashes :o_O:

False equivalency.

He mentioned the book burning to ashes because it is widely considered to be a "holy" book gifted to humans by God; he's saying that if a bible was indestructible he would be more inclined to believe in the Christian god.

Your book about the lottery has absolutely nothing to do with his argument.

Explain this ? He said he only believes that what writen in the bible is true if the bible would d be undestructible

Its the same

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No, it's not. The Bible is meant to be "holy" and "written by God."

Your lottery book is just another regular book. We don't have to believe that you won the lottery either unless you provide substantial evidence that you did.

If you don't understand that, then we should just drop it, because this is going nowhere.
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Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 4 2017, 03:33 PM
No, it's not. The Bible is meant to be "holy" and "written by God."

Your lottery book is just another regular book. We don't have to believe that you won the lottery either unless you provide substantial evidence that you did.

If you don't understand that, then we should just drop it, because this is going nowhere.
Writen by god ?

Hmmm i doubt god can write in a literal sense.


Its god words or not is either you believe or not

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If God can't write, then how is he all-powerful?
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Izanagi!

I mean, if the Bible isn't the literal, physical collection of the word and teachings of God, then it means that all of it is tainted by imperfect humans who're writing it, right?
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Yu Narukami
Aug 4 2017, 04:31 PM
I mean, if the Bible isn't the literal, physical collection of the word and teachings of God, then it means that all of it is tainted by imperfect humans who're writing it, right?
I meant to say... maybe it is but its not like god actually write thaz down in a literal sense. Its like i tell you to write down what i say. Then the one who writes is you but you write my words not yours

Right ?

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And how do we know that actually happened?
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