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The Great Religious Debate of 2017
Topic Started: Jul 28 2017, 01:49 PM (13,401 Views)
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The myth of Adam and Eve was used to explain how evil came to exist in our world. I'm sure the authors of Genesis never anticipated the questions we would have about it in the future, so the myth wasn't written to stand against such scrutiny.

It's very obviously a parable or myth. I'm not totally sure why Christians still consider it factual; I didn't even believe that it was factual back when I was still a Christian. It's a flawed parable, though, because--like Emiya said--an all-powerful, all-knowing god would never set up a scenario like that. He withholds knowledge from his creations, knowing full-well that they will still obtain it, and tells them not to eat from a specific tree, knowing full-well that they will. It is entirely illogical, but it was simply meant to provide an explanation for why evil would exist in a world created by God. I'm sure that not even the authors realize the mistakes they were making when they invented it--the fact that an all-knowing God would already know that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree. God was setting them up for failure from the beginning.
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Leve Feyenoord 1!

I've seen a lot of people try to make the argument that it's such a popular believe it can't be wrong. Or person X believed in Christianity and he was a brilliant scientist, etc.

Let me give you some simple statistics.
If (any kind of) Christianity is correct, 5 billion people (69% of the world population) will be wrong.
If (any kind of) Islam is correct, 5.6 billion people (78% of the world population) will be wrong.
If Hinduism is correct, 6.2 billion people (86% of the world population) will be wrong.
If Judaism is correct, 7.15 billion people (99.8% of the world population) will be wrong.
If Atheism is correct, 6 billion people (85% of the world population) will be wrong.
If any other religious view is correct, at least 6.8 billion people (95% of the world population) will be wrong.

The majority of people will always be wrong. And among them will always be extremely intelligent people.
An argument based on authority is not going to help you in a religious debate because in the end, everybody is agnostic. Nobody knows.
Edited by Ginyu, Aug 2 2017, 01:29 PM.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

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God gave Adam and Eve free will. They chose to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, ignoring Gods command. And you and I would've eventually ignored God too so we can't just say this is totally Adam and Eve's fault. It's that we are all sinners


But they literally didn't even know that was a bad thing to do, they had no knowledge on what is good or bad so how is that their fault?
That's God punishing all humans for his stupid mistake.
And he still made the concept of bad to begin with, which is definitely not our fault.

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What do you mean God doesn't make any effort to guide us? He literally came down to our level, in the form of a human, and had a book written to guide us lol. He also gave us the 10 commandments to live by.


No, God gave us said book and left us to interpret it ourselves, knowing full well that we're idiots and would interpret it in a multitude of different ways wherein which only one can be the right way.
He left us to sort it out on our own, knowing we'd fail and it's still our fault?

And this was thousands of years ago when people were way less intelligent and poorly documented things.
If God showed up right now and told us what's what we could properly record the information to ensure everyone in the future abides by the rules.


How shortsighted is God exactly?

It's like he gave us the Bible and then buggered off thinking he'd solved the issue even though God should know how sceptical and divided everyone is, did God honestly think everyone would take this one book that some guy said God made as gospel no questions asked?

For starters, people don't even speak the same language so why did God not give every single culture a Bible so that there'd be no confusion among translations...
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Someone had mentioned that the bible is in fact just a fictional book.

Guess what how many ppl died because they believed that the jedi order was real hmm


If the bible would be bulls***. I doubt ppl would die for it. People aint idiots
Edited by Pointer, Aug 2 2017, 04:40 PM.

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Izanagi!

Geralt of Rivia
Aug 2 2017, 04:39 PM
Someone had mentioned that the bible is in fact just a fictional book.

Guess what how many ppl died because they believed that the jedi order was real hmm


If the bible would be bulls***. I doubt ppl would die for it. People aint idiots
I assure you, plenty of people are stupid.

People have died in the name of the Quran and countless other religious books. If you're a Christian and believe that the bible is the word of God, wouldn't the people dying in the name of other religious books be idiots?
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Geralt of Rivia
Aug 2 2017, 04:39 PM
Someone had mentioned that the bible is in fact just a fictional book.

Guess what how many ppl died because they believed that the jedi order was real hmm


If the bible would be bulls***. I doubt ppl would die for it. People aint idiots
People die for Islam too. Quick, you'd better convert to Islam!
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Honestly like OFG said I'm not sure how the Adam and Eve story went down exactly or if it's even meant to be taken totally literally. Maybe God did tell them more than just "hey don't eat from that tree". Anyway, I view them as a spiritual representation of mankind. You can say that it's unfair that we are suffering because of their mistake but in reality you can't say you wouldn't have eventually disobeyed God either. It's egotistical and irresponsible to say you wouldn't have

Yeah God kinda left us to interpret the bible but I think that's why the bible said listening to people like priests is important

Malachi 2:7 For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

I can't say much for why God left so much room for interpretation though. There are so many branches of Christianity. I've asked the same question. Idk why God is allowing his own followers to disagree. I mean I guess it's also on people for changing what the bible says and making more religions out of it but that wouldn't happen if it was just made clearer
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Ssj3vegito96
Aug 2 2017, 04:52 PM
Honestly like OFG said I'm not sure how the Adam and Eve story went down exactly or if it's even meant to be taken totally literally. Maybe God did tell them more than just "hey don't eat from that tree". Anyway, I view them as a spiritual representation of mankind. You can say that it's unfair that we are suffering because of their mistake but in reality you can't say you wouldn't have eventually disobeyed God either. It's egotistical and irresponsible to say you wouldn't have

Yeah God kinda left us to interpret the bible but I think that's why the bible said listening to people like priests is important

Malachi 2:7 For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

I can't say much for why God left so much room for interpretation though. There are so many branches of Christianity. I've asked the same question. Idk why God is allowing his own followers to disagree. I mean I guess it's also on people for changing what the bible says and making more religions out of it but that wouldn't happen if it was just made clearer
Correct me if i am wrong but didnt jesus die for our sins ? Aka thr sin of adam and eve . Thus that sin has been vanished pretty much 2000 years ago


Narukami. What if the god of quran and the god of bible is the same ? What if there are more "gods" minor ones and stuff

Besides i am not a die hard christian. I just dont flatout reject the possibility of the existance of a higher being
Edited by Pointer, Aug 2 2017, 04:58 PM.

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Izanagi!

Ssj3vegito96
Aug 2 2017, 04:52 PM
Honestly like OFG said I'm not sure how the Adam and Eve story went down exactly or if it's even meant to be taken totally literally. Maybe God did tell them more than just "hey don't eat from that tree". Anyway, I view them as a spiritual representation of mankind. You can say that it's unfair that we are suffering because of their mistake but in reality you can't say you wouldn't have eventually disobeyed God either. It's egotistical and irresponsible to say you wouldn't have

Yeah God kinda left us to interpret the bible but I think that's why the bible said listening to people like priests is important

Malachi 2:7 For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

I can't say much for why God left so much room for interpretation though. There are so many branches of Christianity. I've asked the same question. Idk why God is allowing his own followers to disagree. I mean I guess it's also on people for changing what the bible says and making more religions out of it but that wouldn't happen if it was just made clearer
Anybody can become a Priest, though. One person's interpretation isn't more accurate or better than another person's just because they go through the process of becoming a Priest.

@Geralt - Really? If the God of the Quran and the God of the Bible are the same God, why aren't the two holy books identical?

And nice strawman there. Not many people outright reject the possibility, most people just believe that a Deity doesn't exist because the evidence isn't there, not that the possibility is impossible.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Aug 2 2017, 05:05 PM.
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I'm not sure how that works but from my understanding Jesus died for our sins and so as long as you accept that you are a sinner and that Jesus is your savior then you'll be forgiven

Obviously that doesn't mean go out and intentionally do stupid s*** expecting to be forgiven. Sin is a mistake. You still have to try and be the best you can
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Aug 2 2017, 05:06 PM.
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Ssj3vegito96
Aug 2 2017, 05:01 PM
I'm not sure how that works but from my understanding Jesus died for our sins and so as long as you accept that you are a sinner and that Jesus is your savior then you'll be forgiven

Obviously that doesn't mean go out and intentionally do stupid s*** expecting to be forgiven. Son is a mistake. You still have to try and be the best you can

@yu narukami idk what you're getting at. What are you responding to? I didn't talk about Islam. I'm just talking about branches of Christianity. And what you mean strawman? I'm not talking about possibility of God or anything like that. You sure you quoted the right person?
Yeah, sorry about that. I was responding to you and Geralt, but I forgot to quote him as well.
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Aug 2 2017, 05:00 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Aug 2 2017, 04:52 PM
Honestly like OFG said I'm not sure how the Adam and Eve story went down exactly or if it's even meant to be taken totally literally. Maybe God did tell them more than just "hey don't eat from that tree". Anyway, I view them as a spiritual representation of mankind. You can say that it's unfair that we are suffering because of their mistake but in reality you can't say you wouldn't have eventually disobeyed God either. It's egotistical and irresponsible to say you wouldn't have

Yeah God kinda left us to interpret the bible but I think that's why the bible said listening to people like priests is important

Malachi 2:7 For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

I can't say much for why God left so much room for interpretation though. There are so many branches of Christianity. I've asked the same question. Idk why God is allowing his own followers to disagree. I mean I guess it's also on people for changing what the bible says and making more religions out of it but that wouldn't happen if it was just made clearer
Anybody can become a Priest, though. One person's interpretation isn't more accurate or better than another person's just because they go through the process of becoming a Priest.

@Geralt - Really? If the God of the Quran and the God of the Bible are the same God, why aren't the two holy books identical?

And nice strawman there. Not many people outright reject the possibility, most people just believe that a Deity doesn't exist because the evidence isn't there, not that the possibility is impossible.
Yeah .. so if yoi have zero evidence of something that absolutely means that doesnt exist.

Well tell this to Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity. Because it was only proved a couple of decades ago. And yet still was damn correct


I am not defending anything here. If you believe in the sun god ra or the hindu god krsna or if you think nothing exists its fine. Bit the universe is pretty much eternal and thus the possobilities are quite high that there are quite a few supernatural beings out there at least the possibility is there
Edited by Pointer, Aug 2 2017, 05:10 PM.

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Izanagi!

Geralt of Rivia
Aug 2 2017, 05:07 PM
Yu Narukami
Aug 2 2017, 05:00 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Aug 2 2017, 04:52 PM
Honestly like OFG said I'm not sure how the Adam and Eve story went down exactly or if it's even meant to be taken totally literally. Maybe God did tell them more than just "hey don't eat from that tree". Anyway, I view them as a spiritual representation of mankind. You can say that it's unfair that we are suffering because of their mistake but in reality you can't say you wouldn't have eventually disobeyed God either. It's egotistical and irresponsible to say you wouldn't have

Yeah God kinda left us to interpret the bible but I think that's why the bible said listening to people like priests is important

Malachi 2:7 For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

I can't say much for why God left so much room for interpretation though. There are so many branches of Christianity. I've asked the same question. Idk why God is allowing his own followers to disagree. I mean I guess it's also on people for changing what the bible says and making more religions out of it but that wouldn't happen if it was just made clearer
Anybody can become a Priest, though. One person's interpretation isn't more accurate or better than another person's just because they go through the process of becoming a Priest.

@Geralt - Really? If the God of the Quran and the God of the Bible are the same God, why aren't the two holy books identical?

And nice strawman there. Not many people outright reject the possibility, most people just believe that a Deity doesn't exist because the evidence isn't there, not that the possibility is impossible.
Yeah .. so if yoi have zero evidence of something that absolutely means that doesnt exist.

Well tell this to Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity. Because it was only proved a couple of decades ago. And yet still was damn correct


I am not defending anything here. If you believe in the sun god ra or the hindu god krsna or if you think nothing exists its fine. Bit the universe is pretty much eternal and thus the possobilities are quite high that there are quite a few supernatural beings out there at least the possibility is there
No, nobody is saying that. It's just that people don't believe it exists because of the lack of evidence. You're acting as though everyone's flat out said ''God definitely doesn't exist'', while people are saying that they don't believe God exists.

And Einstein had plenty of critics and people who didn't believe his work. Evidence has existed since he came up with it, so stop trying with that false equivalence.

Yes, the possibility is there. There's just no evidence to prove that they actually exist at this point, so we shouldn't believe wholeheartedly that they do.
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I know everyone has their reason but I'm just curious what your guys' reason for not believing that there is a god? I'm not talking about organized religion I'm just talking about a god
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Yu Narukami
Aug 2 2017, 05:13 PM
Geralt of Rivia
Aug 2 2017, 05:07 PM
Yu Narukami
Aug 2 2017, 05:00 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Aug 2 2017, 04:52 PM
Honestly like OFG said I'm not sure how the Adam and Eve story went down exactly or if it's even meant to be taken totally literally. Maybe God did tell them more than just "hey don't eat from that tree". Anyway, I view them as a spiritual representation of mankind. You can say that it's unfair that we are suffering because of their mistake but in reality you can't say you wouldn't have eventually disobeyed God either. It's egotistical and irresponsible to say you wouldn't have

Yeah God kinda left us to interpret the bible but I think that's why the bible said listening to people like priests is important

Malachi 2:7 For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

I can't say much for why God left so much room for interpretation though. There are so many branches of Christianity. I've asked the same question. Idk why God is allowing his own followers to disagree. I mean I guess it's also on people for changing what the bible says and making more religions out of it but that wouldn't happen if it was just made clearer
Anybody can become a Priest, though. One person's interpretation isn't more accurate or better than another person's just because they go through the process of becoming a Priest.

@Geralt - Really? If the God of the Quran and the God of the Bible are the same God, why aren't the two holy books identical?

And nice strawman there. Not many people outright reject the possibility, most people just believe that a Deity doesn't exist because the evidence isn't there, not that the possibility is impossible.
Yeah .. so if yoi have zero evidence of something that absolutely means that doesnt exist.

Well tell this to Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity. Because it was only proved a couple of decades ago. And yet still was damn correct


I am not defending anything here. If you believe in the sun god ra or the hindu god krsna or if you think nothing exists its fine. Bit the universe is pretty much eternal and thus the possobilities are quite high that there are quite a few supernatural beings out there at least the possibility is there
No, nobody is saying that. It's just that people don't believe it exists because of the lack of evidence. You're acting as though everyone's flat out said ''God definitely doesn't exist'', while people are saying that they don't believe God exists.

And Einstein had plenty of critics and people who didn't believe his work. Evidence has existed since he came up with it, so stop trying with that false equivalence.

Yes, the possibility is there. There's just no evidence to prove that they actually exist at this point, so we shouldn't believe wholeheartedly that they do.
Evidence ? For special relativity back in the 1920 ??? Haha

Nice try though


If so ... and if there were please post a link so i can enlighten myself

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