Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
  • 20
The Great Religious Debate of 2017
Topic Started: Jul 28 2017, 01:49 PM (13,403 Views)
Dankness Lava
Member Avatar
Dankness Forever

Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 1 2017, 04:16 PM
Dankness Flame
Aug 1 2017, 04:13 PM
Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 1 2017, 03:25 PM
Your god condones slavery in the New Testament. Kindness, peace, and love = slavery?
Well you know, from what I've heard, what you're referring to as slavery was more like indentured servitude, and wasn't the grueling experience you may be thinking of.
Not true at all. They were not paid, and it was common to beat and even kill slaves. Neither Jesus nor his apostles ever attempted to correct this.

Luke 12:47
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

For more information: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Bible

I stand corrected.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pointer
Member Avatar
...

Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 1 2017, 04:16 PM
Dankness Flame
Aug 1 2017, 04:13 PM
Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 1 2017, 03:25 PM
Your god condones slavery in the New Testament. Kindness, peace, and love = slavery?
Well you know, from what I've heard, what you're referring to as slavery was more like indentured servitude, and wasn't the grueling experience you may be thinking of.
Not true at all. They were not paid, and it was common to beat and even kill slaves. Neither Jesus nor his apostles ever attempted to correct this.

Luke 12:47
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

For more information: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Bible

What you quoted was a parable of jesus. That has nothing to do with his behaviour with his discipline. It was a figure of speech. Besides. I love when you use quotes out of context :)
Edited by Pointer, Aug 1 2017, 04:55 PM.

Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Doggo Champion 2k17
Default Avatar


Do explain why I'm wrong instead of reverting to baseless accusations.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Ssj3vegito96
Member Avatar


Weren't slave and servant defined differently at the time in Hebrew? There's a video I watched one time that I have to look for. Some professor was talking about how in newer translations of the bible the word slave is used a lot more and gives the wrong impression about how things actually were or something like that
IT'S CHEESE
Posted Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Doggo Champion 2k17
Default Avatar


Regardless of the word used, it is made very clear throughout the bible that these slaves/servants were whipped, beaten, and treated like dirt. It's difficult to justify it just because it's in the good book.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-carey/slavery-and-the-bible_b_880756.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery#Slavery_in_the_New_Testament
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Aug 1 2017, 06:21 PM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
EMIYA
Member Avatar
"I am the bone of my sword."

Slavery wasn't really any different than it would be later. It was the persecution and enslavement (no duh) of an individual's rights and forced into work by another person. If the slave was lucky they might have a kind "master" and if they were really lucky, they might even become a sort overseer to the rest of the slaves, kind of like how one servant might have authority over lesser servants. If they were REALLY lucky, they might even get control over the land they worked on.

But this doesn't change the fact that they were still treated as lesser beings and even to get to the last part I mentioned took time, effort and a lot of luck.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Ssj3vegito96
Member Avatar


It is different though

This is a long video but the guy gives a lot of background and details on the history

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUOsBQYuZ9g



He studies ancient languages and also goes over how the "slave" life was not really like what we think of it
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Aug 1 2017, 06:42 PM.
IT'S CHEESE
Posted Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Doggo Champion 2k17
Default Avatar


Can you summarize in your own words why you believe that the bible discourages slavery? There is not a single passage that I can refer to that would support this claim, and I really don't feel like listening to an hour plus lecture by a pseudo-scholar. Peter Williams has debated with Bart Ehrman in the past and lost horribly, so I'm not one to trust his credibility as a scholar.

Bart Ehrman took his studies so literally, it cost him his faith; he is factual and extremely thorough. Peter Williams, on the other hand, is known for twisting and conflating the bible and its history to fit whatever agenda he is pushing.

Of course a scholar who clings tightly to his own faith would use whatever facts necessary to make the bible look better, but what it really boils down to is this: If god is all-powerful, all-knowing, the most intelligent being in the universe, etc. couldn't he have made the bible (i.e. his holy word) more clear about these matters? It would have been relatively easy for him to have "inspired" a writer to put "oh, and by the way, slavery is bad" (put more eloquently, of course), yet he didn't even bother to do that. Not to mention there are historical contradictions, scientific inaccuracies, and a plethora of contradictions that an all-knowing god should have prevented had he been all-knowing. Is Christianity a riddle that only the enlightened are entitled to decipher? I highly doubt it was meant to be; it's just sloppy writing unbenefiting of a god.
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Aug 1 2017, 08:13 PM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dankness Lava
Member Avatar
Dankness Forever

Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 1 2017, 08:08 PM
Is Christianity a riddle that only the enlightened are entitled to decipher?
Considering what Christianity is all about, that would actually make plenty sense.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Doggo Champion 2k17
Default Avatar


Did you want to explain to me what Christianity is all about then?
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Overly Facetious Goblin
Aug 1 2017, 03:25 PM
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
Epicurus
Love that quote.

Perfectly and simply describes why I refuse to accept a religious take on God.

Either God has no control over children being born with bone cancer.
Or it has full control and makes them born with it anyway.

Why would I worship a weak God or a God that would let innocent children suffer for absolutely no reason?



Of course I'd love an afterlife, virtually every day I have an existential crisis knowing that I'll die one day but believing in God to try get in to heaven would just be lying to myself and surely someone worthy of being called God wouldn't fall for it.
I get the whole fear of God thing but...it's kind of stupid to have a God you're meant to be scared of isn't it?

Anything that would make you live your life in fear of punishment is hardly a respectable being, that is pure cruelty.

And if we're meant to be loved by God rather than dominated...where is this love?
The afterlife is a pretty cheap gift compared to the horrors in the world and a life of servitude, considering the afterlife is also a life of servitude generally.
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dankness Lava
Member Avatar
Dankness Forever

Having faith. And apparently enough exposure to this faith leads you to answers previously unknown. Apparently.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

I find the concept a bit backwards there.


Obviously the idea is that you worship God, you believe God to be real but you worship it knowing full well you may not get reward and that devotion is supposed to be what gets you in to heaven and such, unconditional faith.

But at the end of it you still ultimately want that reward anyway? It's still out of self interest at the core is it not, so would it really make any difference if we knew God was real?
God gets its worship either way and the insincere probably don't get rewarded.

God has left belief in itself at the mercy of human kind knowing full well how stupid we are and thus we have fought each other over it for basically all recorded history and are slowly getting further and further away from believing at all...what is the point in that.
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Son-Goku
Member Avatar
孫悟空

Steve
Aug 1 2017, 11:31 PM
Obviously the idea is that you worship God, you believe God to be real but you worship it knowing full well you may not get reward and that devotion is supposed to be what gets you in to heaven and such, unconditional faith.

But at the end of it you still ultimately want that reward anyway? It's still out of self interest at the core is it not, so would it really make any difference if we knew God was real?
God gets its worship either way and the insincere probably don't get rewarded.
I don't get what you're saying here. Can you explain it a bit differently?
Posted Image
RP Character Bios
Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human
Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Ssj3vegito96
Member Avatar


@OFG honestly I didn't watch the whole thing either lol only half of it and thought it was interesting

The epicurus quote is kinda weird to me

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
― Epicurus

Quote:
 
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent
there is some evil that is necessary as hard as it is to accept. Imo at least
Quote:
 
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
God supposedly has a plan and we have to trust that, again, evil is necessary. He gave us a brain and free will to do with what we want with it
Quote:
 
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
evil comes from us. It starts with Adam and Eve.
Quote:
 
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
because this is earth not heaven and nobody said this life would be easy. It's up to us to use the free will he gave us and be good. It's not that hard to just be nice and loving. But we aren't

I'm tired of this ridiculous logic that god should be taking responsibility for the pain and suffering that WE cause. Where is the lesson in that? Humans always do this. They don't let go of their pride and then they refuse to take responsibility for their actions. That's probably why being too prideful is a sin. You want him to just press backspace or something every time someone does something bad? Or rid us of the ability to do good or evil? What's the point of all this then?
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Aug 2 2017, 12:27 AM.
IT'S CHEESE
Posted Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Sign-up for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Deep Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
  • 20

Theme Designed by McKee91