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Where do you place Kale in terms of power?
Topic Started: Jul 23 2017, 06:57 PM (18,960 Views)
+ Pyrus
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I saw this on Reddit and thought it was appropriate:
Quote:
 
The best way I've seen power explained on this sub is as a flame, where the ssj forms are stoked fires that you can build whatever size and manage with your available fuel, while SSB is a torch that can be dialed as low or as high as you want. Goku can pour energy into it and fight gods, but he can sandbag just as easily.

Goku can use Blue to fit whatever fight he's in, whereas the lower forms won't allot him the same efficiency.
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+ Solid Snake
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滅Are you frightened?

Kale couldn't one shot Cabba? But Blue Goku couldn't do s*** to her? The Kamehameha wave has a 2x amp basing off Saiyan saga I think, and Kale walked right through it. Why would Goku fire off an attack he knew would do jack s*** though? Is he that dumb of a fighter? I sincerely doubt that, Goku simply overestimated his Super Saiyan Blue form or underestimated Kale's Berserker form.

What we know is:

SSJBerserk Kale >>> SSJBlue Goku -289 thousand gap- SSJ2 Goku >= SSJ2 Caulifla >> USSJ Caulifla >~ SSJ Goku > SSJ Caulifla > SSJ Cabba

Caulifla attempted to assume the Super Saiyan 2 form to face Super Saiyan Goku but went Ultra Super Saiyan instead. So safe to say she assumed he didn't have that form.
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* Yu Narukami
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Pyrus
Jul 25 2017, 06:05 PM
I saw this on Reddit and thought it was appropriate:
Quote:
 
The best way I've seen power explained on this sub is as a flame, where the ssj forms are stoked fires that you can build whatever size and manage with your available fuel, while SSB is a torch that can be dialed as low or as high as you want. Goku can pour energy into it and fight gods, but he can sandbag just as easily.

Goku can use Blue to fit whatever fight he's in, whereas the lower forms won't allot him the same efficiency.
Kinda makes Goku and Gohan hanging out calm and peaceful as Mastered Super Saiyans kinda weird, though.
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Solid Snake
Jul 25 2017, 06:09 PM
Kale couldn't one shot Cabba? But Blue Goku couldn't do s*** to her? The Kamehameha wave has a 2x amp basing off Saiyan saga I think, and Kale walked right through it. Why would Goku fire off an attack he knew would do jack s*** though? Is he that dumb of a fighter? I sincerely doubt that, Goku simply overestimated his Super Saiyan Blue form or underestimated Kale's Berserker form.

What we know is:

SSJBerserk Kale >>> SSJBlue Goku -289 thousand gap- SSJ2 Goku >= SSJ2 Caulifla >> USSJ Caulifla >~ SSJ Goku > SSJ Caulifla > SSJ Cabba

Caulifla attempted to assume the Super Saiyan 2 form to face Super Saiyan Goku but went Ultra Super Saiyan instead. So safe to say she assumed he didn't have that form.
Right away your chain is broken because you're asserting Kale above Goku as if it's a fact when there has been a sufficient amount of evidence to the contrary. I'm not dismissing the possibility that Kale could be stronger than Goku, but you would have to address multiple issues such as Goku's lack of exterior damage, his indication of the amount of power he was actually using, and his Kamehameha looking rather unimpressive compared to some of his others from the series.

I don't know if I can agree with Goku overestimating himself or underestimating Kale considering he knows his own power and he should be able to sense Kale's. :unsure:
Yu Narukami
Jul 25 2017, 06:09 PM
Pyrus
Jul 25 2017, 06:05 PM
I saw this on Reddit and thought it was appropriate:
Quote:
 
The best way I've seen power explained on this sub is as a flame, where the ssj forms are stoked fires that you can build whatever size and manage with your available fuel, while SSB is a torch that can be dialed as low or as high as you want. Goku can pour energy into it and fight gods, but he can sandbag just as easily.

Goku can use Blue to fit whatever fight he's in, whereas the lower forms won't allot him the same efficiency.
Kinda makes Goku and Gohan hanging out calm and peaceful as Mastered Super Saiyans kinda weird, though.

Yeah, that's why I had a problem with Blue being perfect for ki control when it was first revealed. It kind of makes mastering Super Saiyan look pointless. But if perfect ki control and stamina are different elements, then I can kind of understand...
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 25 2017, 07:30 PM.
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+ Solid Snake
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Pyrus- Jiren >>> SSJBerserk Kale >>> SSJBlue Goku ("more power") -289 thousand gap- SSJ2 Goku >= SSJ2 Caulifla >> USSJ Caulifla >~ SSJ Goku > SSJ Caulifla > SSJ Cabba

Exterior damage isn't reliable to me but I fixed it now though.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Yeah, Herms confirms that Goku said he was going to put out a bit more power.
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/889710976848732161

What did the subs end up going with again? Even I know that Chyotto means a little or a bit.
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Solid Snake
Jul 26 2017, 01:18 AM
Pyrus- Jiren >>> SSJBerserk Kale >>> SSJBlue Goku ("more power") -289 thousand gap- SSJ2 Goku >= SSJ2 Caulifla >> USSJ Caulifla >~ SSJ Goku > SSJ Caulifla > SSJ Cabba

Exterior damage isn't reliable to me but I fixed it now though.
You've got my agreement on this one.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jul 26 2017, 01:44 AM
Yeah, Herms confirms that Goku said he was going to put out a bit more power.
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/889710976848732161

What did the subs end up going with again? Even I know that Chyotto means a little or a bit.

All the subs I've seen on YouTube go with "more power" rather than a more specific amount.
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 26 2017, 01:52 AM.
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what the f*** is this vegan propaganda stop it
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https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/6pn2pd/goku_vs_kale_what_really_happened/

Basically my thoughts in a nutshell. There isn't much more for me to say at this point.

Enjoy yourselves. That's the name of the game!
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Mike XL
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Pyrus
Jul 23 2017, 07:07 PM
I don't think she's that much stronger than SSJ2 Goku. She didn't do any damage to him when she attacked him, and she was in full-on rage mode so it'd be unlikely she was consciously toying with him. Her tanking his Kamehameha could easily be attributed to him using Blue to better control the fight and underestimating her.
.

I have her near SSJ3 Goku, but other than that I agree
Edited by Mike XL, Jul 27 2017, 08:58 PM.
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滅Are you frightened?

Pyrus
Jul 26 2017, 05:59 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/6pn2pd/goku_vs_kale_what_really_happened/

Basically my thoughts in a nutshell. There isn't much more for me to say at this point.

Enjoy yourselves. That's the name of the game!
This is fairly accurate to what I suspected anyway, and I always assumed he underestimated her power from the get go so yeah, I figured that. But as for the Kamehameha comparisons, those aren't reliable to determine if they were weaker or stronger or equals. If anything, I'd say Kale is around 17/Lapis, and Gohan's current power.

Edit: based off the fact Goku's Kamehameha looked the same against 17/Lapis just more up close.
Edited by Solid Snake, Jul 27 2017, 09:12 PM.
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Kale is probably stronger than SS3. Vegeta mentions something about it being a Super Saiyan's true form, and since 3 is the strongest natural SS (SSG and Blue are forced transformations attained through rituals or training with gods, it's not naturally attainable by Saiyans) I could see Kale surpassing the long haired form.
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Jul 28 2017, 12:59 AM
Kale is probably stronger than SS3. Vegeta mentions something about it being a Super Saiyan's true form, and since 3 is the strongest natural SS (SSG and Blue are forced transformations attained through rituals or training with gods, it's not naturally attainable by Saiyans) I could see Kale surpassing the long haired form.
I dont think vegeta ment sayains true form as in the race's true form. But more towards kales real power.
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StrenuousSpider
Jul 28 2017, 01:05 AM
Paladin
Jul 28 2017, 12:59 AM
Kale is probably stronger than SS3. Vegeta mentions something about it being a Super Saiyan's true form, and since 3 is the strongest natural SS (SSG and Blue are forced transformations attained through rituals or training with gods, it's not naturally attainable by Saiyans) I could see Kale surpassing the long haired form.
I dont think vegeta ment sayains true form as in the race's true form. But more towards kales real power.
"Be careful kakarot, this is Kale's true form" wtf? Lol
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+ Solid Snake
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I just rewatched the fight and surrounding context.

Super Saiyan Berserker Kale (initially) is at least equal to Super Saiyan 3. Reason being, she got the attention of everyone noteworthy (Jiren, Toppo, Vegeta, Frieza, Gohan,17/Lapis and Piccolo), and she could've easily been 4x stronger then Super Saiyan 2 Goku.

Super Saiyan Berserker Kale (post-Blue Goku's Kamehameha) is slightly stronger than Super Saiyan Blue's suppressed level or maybe higher. Reason being, Goku showed some form of effort that he needed to tap into more of Blue's power due to underestimating Berserker Kale's uprising power and was left unable to defend himself in time to overpower her. He was also unable to free himself despite being able to spike his ki to a level needed to out power Kale.

Super Saiyan Berserker Kale (post-losing control of her rising power) is moderately strong enough to have Toppo comment on the power of her voice alone, needless to say of actual power. Shown to imply she knocked Goku out of Blue. Vegeta regards her as a monster after her power up. Her power cannot be negated at all by Pride Trooper's ability. Hit states it's bad that she's losing control and might actually kill and be disqualified. Jiren offers to take her down, but I noted it was a blindside attack.

Edited by Solid Snake, Jul 28 2017, 07:41 AM.
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