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Where do you place Kale in terms of power?
Topic Started: Jul 23 2017, 06:57 PM (18,954 Views)
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Yu Narukami
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Idunno, why didn't he use it against Buu, Cell and Black?
I dunno, because Kaioken is too strenuous to be used alongside Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2/Super Saiyan 3? Though, I know you'll probably just label that as 'head-canon'.
Well was it ever stated? Can you prove it's not head-canon? And you ignored the fact that he fought Black in SSB, so why no kaioken?
Alright, let me guess. If it isn't for any good reason, is it...gasp...character/plot induced stupidity?

He didn't use it against Black because he didn't get the opportunity, and using it would basically wreck his ability to be useful after that point, leading to Zamasu just killing all of them.
Not true, he used it against Merged Zamasu and was still useful. Now you're just making excuses cause you can't answer the question. I never said it was PIS
Are you ignoring that going against Black and Zamasu is an entirely different situation than going against just Merged Zamasu?

Okay, if it isn't PIS, why do you think Goku didn't use it against Kale?
Kaioken is a last ditch effort, he always fights at a weaker level first. The fight with blue lasted under a minute, than Kale was taken out by Jiren. Basically the same reason he didn't transform into SSJ2 until getting smashed and thrown a few times
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Idunno, why didn't he use it against Buu, Cell and Black?
I dunno, because Kaioken is too strenuous to be used alongside Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2/Super Saiyan 3? Though, I know you'll probably just label that as 'head-canon'.
Well was it ever stated? Can you prove it's not head-canon? And you ignored the fact that he fought Black in SSB, so why no kaioken?
Alright, let me guess. If it isn't for any good reason, is it...gasp...character/plot induced stupidity?

He didn't use it against Black because he didn't get the opportunity, and using it would basically wreck his ability to be useful after that point, leading to Zamasu just killing all of them.
Not true, he used it against Merged Zamasu and was still useful. Now you're just making excuses cause you can't answer the question. I never said it was PIS
Are you ignoring that going against Black and Zamasu is an entirely different situation than going against just Merged Zamasu?

Okay, if it isn't PIS, why do you think Goku didn't use it against Kale?
Kaioken is a last ditch effort, he always fights at a weaker level first. The fight with blue lasted under a minute, than Kale was taken out by Jiren. Basically the same reason he didn't transform into SSJ2 until getting smashed and thrown a few times
He could sense Kale, so he must've sensed that the Blue Kamehameha would've done nothing, right?
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Idunno, why didn't he use it against Buu, Cell and Black?
I dunno, because Kaioken is too strenuous to be used alongside Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2/Super Saiyan 3? Though, I know you'll probably just label that as 'head-canon'.
Well was it ever stated? Can you prove it's not head-canon? And you ignored the fact that he fought Black in SSB, so why no kaioken?
Alright, let me guess. If it isn't for any good reason, is it...gasp...character/plot induced stupidity?

He didn't use it against Black because he didn't get the opportunity, and using it would basically wreck his ability to be useful after that point, leading to Zamasu just killing all of them.
Not true, he used it against Merged Zamasu and was still useful. Now you're just making excuses cause you can't answer the question. I never said it was PIS
Are you ignoring that going against Black and Zamasu is an entirely different situation than going against just Merged Zamasu?

Okay, if it isn't PIS, why do you think Goku didn't use it against Kale?
Kaioken is a last ditch effort, he always fights at a weaker level first. The fight with blue lasted under a minute, than Kale was taken out by Jiren. Basically the same reason he didn't transform into SSJ2 until getting smashed and thrown a few times
He could sense Kale, so he must've sensed that the Blue Kamehameha would've done nothing, right?
He fought her in blue for not even a minute, he always gets pummeled before transforming. He got pummeled in SSJ2 before going SSB
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Idunno, why didn't he use it against Buu, Cell and Black?
I dunno, because Kaioken is too strenuous to be used alongside Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2/Super Saiyan 3? Though, I know you'll probably just label that as 'head-canon'.
Well was it ever stated? Can you prove it's not head-canon? And you ignored the fact that he fought Black in SSB, so why no kaioken?
Alright, let me guess. If it isn't for any good reason, is it...gasp...character/plot induced stupidity?

He didn't use it against Black because he didn't get the opportunity, and using it would basically wreck his ability to be useful after that point, leading to Zamasu just killing all of them.
Not true, he used it against Merged Zamasu and was still useful. Now you're just making excuses cause you can't answer the question. I never said it was PIS
Are you ignoring that going against Black and Zamasu is an entirely different situation than going against just Merged Zamasu?

Okay, if it isn't PIS, why do you think Goku didn't use it against Kale?
Kaioken is a last ditch effort, he always fights at a weaker level first. The fight with blue lasted under a minute, than Kale was taken out by Jiren. Basically the same reason he didn't transform into SSJ2 until getting smashed and thrown a few times
He could sense Kale, so he must've sensed that the Blue Kamehameha would've done nothing, right?
He fought her in blue for not even a minute, he always gets pummeled before transforming. He got pummeled in SSJ2 before going SSB
So, essentially, you're destroying Goku's character by saying that he's so dumb that he's allowing himself to get pummelled by an opponent who's probably way over three times stronger than his SSB's full power?
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It was explained why Goku never used Kaio-Ken prior to the Universe 6 tournament. If the explanation isn't good enough, that's too bad. At least we got one, unlike in the Otherworld filler. Not using the explanation is as good as rewriting the scene, in which case it becomes useless.
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Why didn't he use it against black? That line of questioning wouldn't prove your point regardless.

If he wants to save energy, he would use god like he's doing next episode. Goku isn't using Ssb and only using ssj3 level power. That's not a thing.

She overpowered Goku, shocked Toppo who is stronger than Ssb Goku and jiren needed to step up. How anyone could say that kale is ssj3 level or even worse, slightly above ssj2 Goku is beyond my comprehension. Must be the hatred for broly reaching kale.
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Why didn't he use it against black? That line of questioning wouldn't prove your point regardless.

If he wants to save energy, he would use god like he's doing next episode. Goku isn't using Ssb and only using ssj3 level power. That's not a thing.

She overpowered Goku, shocked Toppo who is stronger than Ssb Goku and jiren needed to step up. How anyone could say that kale is ssj3 level or even worse, slightly above ssj2 Goku is beyond my comprehension. Must be the hatred for broly reaching kale.
He didn't use it against Black because if it put him out of commission, none of them would be able to escape with the time machine because Zamasu would've killed all of them once it ran out.

Are you totally ignoring the outright statement of Goku that said he was going to use a little more power, instead of, say, his full power?
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Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I dunno, because Kaioken is too strenuous to be used alongside Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan 2/Super Saiyan 3? Though, I know you'll probably just label that as 'head-canon'.
Well was it ever stated? Can you prove it's not head-canon? And you ignored the fact that he fought Black in SSB, so why no kaioken?
Alright, let me guess. If it isn't for any good reason, is it...gasp...character/plot induced stupidity?

He didn't use it against Black because he didn't get the opportunity, and using it would basically wreck his ability to be useful after that point, leading to Zamasu just killing all of them.
Not true, he used it against Merged Zamasu and was still useful. Now you're just making excuses cause you can't answer the question. I never said it was PIS
Are you ignoring that going against Black and Zamasu is an entirely different situation than going against just Merged Zamasu?

Okay, if it isn't PIS, why do you think Goku didn't use it against Kale?
Kaioken is a last ditch effort, he always fights at a weaker level first. The fight with blue lasted under a minute, than Kale was taken out by Jiren. Basically the same reason he didn't transform into SSJ2 until getting smashed and thrown a few times
He could sense Kale, so he must've sensed that the Blue Kamehameha would've done nothing, right?
He fought her in blue for not even a minute, he always gets pummeled before transforming. He got pummeled in SSJ2 before going SSB
So, essentially, you're destroying Goku's character by saying that he's so dumb that he's allowing himself to get pummelled by an opponent who's probably way over three times stronger than his SSB's full power?
He fought Universe 9 in Base, there are plenty of examples of him taking beatings when he could power-up more. He fought Toppo as a regular SSJ initially.
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Why didn't he use it against black? That line of questioning wouldn't prove your point regardless.

If he wants to save energy, he would use god like he's doing next episode. Goku isn't using Ssb and only using ssj3 level power. That's not a thing.

She overpowered Goku, shocked Toppo who is stronger than Ssb Goku and jiren needed to step up. How anyone could say that kale is ssj3 level or even worse, slightly above ssj2 Goku is beyond my comprehension. Must be the hatred for broly reaching kale.
He didn't use it against Black because if it put him out of commission, none of them would be able to escape with the time machine because Zamasu would've killed all of them once it ran out.

Are you totally ignoring the outright statement of Goku that said he was going to use a little more power, instead of, say, his full power?
Are you going to ignore the fact that kkx10 SSB is his full power and not just SSB? Don't give me that bs that he wouldn't be able to escape if it crippled his body. He's used kk how many times now?
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Why didn't he use it against black? That line of questioning wouldn't prove your point regardless.

If he wants to save energy, he would use god like he's doing next episode. Goku isn't using Ssb and only using ssj3 level power. That's not a thing.

She overpowered Goku, shocked Toppo who is stronger than Ssb Goku and jiren needed to step up. How anyone could say that kale is ssj3 level or even worse, slightly above ssj2 Goku is beyond my comprehension. Must be the hatred for broly reaching kale.
He didn't use it against Black because if it put him out of commission, none of them would be able to escape with the time machine because Zamasu would've killed all of them once it ran out.

Are you totally ignoring the outright statement of Goku that said he was going to use a little more power, instead of, say, his full power?
Are you going to ignore the fact that kkx10 SSB is his full power and not just SSB? Don't give me that bs that he wouldn't be able to escape if it crippled his body. He's used kk how many times now?
Yeah, remember after the first time he used it, he was suffering from severe consequences that followed him for a little while?

Can you point to another situation in the manga where the Kaioken has been described as Goku's 'full power'? It's an amplification technique, his full power is just the amount of natural, non-amplified Ki he has in his body.

And you're still not answering the question; why didn't he use Kaioken against Kale? Point to other situations all you like, you've got to make some kind of overarching argument. Is it that Goku's dumb enough to not use his 'full power' Kaioken on an opponent he knows damn well he can't beat (and who could easily knock him out/off the stage)?
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Why didn't he use it against black? That line of questioning wouldn't prove your point regardless.

If he wants to save energy, he would use god like he's doing next episode. Goku isn't using Ssb and only using ssj3 level power. That's not a thing.

She overpowered Goku, shocked Toppo who is stronger than Ssb Goku and jiren needed to step up. How anyone could say that kale is ssj3 level or even worse, slightly above ssj2 Goku is beyond my comprehension. Must be the hatred for broly reaching kale.
He didn't use it against Black because if it put him out of commission, none of them would be able to escape with the time machine because Zamasu would've killed all of them once it ran out.

Are you totally ignoring the outright statement of Goku that said he was going to use a little more power, instead of, say, his full power?
That isn't the reason given in the story, just your assumption. Zamasu wasn't killing anyone since he's even weaker than trunks. He isn't a threat to vegeta or trunks, so Goku being weakened is irrelevant.

Could just claim that he didn't use kaioken against kale so he wasn't easy fodder to knock out afterwards.

goku went Ssb then said he was going to put out a little more power. The Kamehameha was a little more power than he was outputting in Ssb. Even if you say that Goku was talking about the jump from ssj2 to Ssb, how Goku defines that gap isn't relevant. If he thinks that ssj2 to Ssb is a little more power, then so what? He's still using Ssb level power since he's in Ssb.
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She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Why didn't he use it against black? That line of questioning wouldn't prove your point regardless.

If he wants to save energy, he would use god like he's doing next episode. Goku isn't using Ssb and only using ssj3 level power. That's not a thing.

She overpowered Goku, shocked Toppo who is stronger than Ssb Goku and jiren needed to step up. How anyone could say that kale is ssj3 level or even worse, slightly above ssj2 Goku is beyond my comprehension. Must be the hatred for broly reaching kale.
He didn't use it against Black because if it put him out of commission, none of them would be able to escape with the time machine because Zamasu would've killed all of them once it ran out.

Are you totally ignoring the outright statement of Goku that said he was going to use a little more power, instead of, say, his full power?
That isn't the reason given in the story, just your assumption. Zamasu wasn't killing anyone since he's even weaker than trunks. He isn't a threat to vegeta or trunks, so Goku being weakened is irrelevant.

Could just claim that he didn't use kaioken against kale so he wasn't easy fodder to knock out afterwards.

goku went Ssb then said he was going to put out a little more power. The Kamehameha was a little more power than he was outputting in Ssb. Even if you say that Goku was talking about the jump from ssj2 to Ssb, how Goku defines that gap isn't relevant. If he thinks that ssj2 to Ssb is a little more power, then so what? He's still using Ssb level power since he's in Ssb.
I mean, cool, he doesn't want to be fodder so he can be knocked out, so he goes up against an opponent who's at least 3x stronger than him and could knock him out easily...?

It's...it's almost as if he can actively control how strong he is in SSB and 'SSB' isn't one set power...crazy, right? Unless Krillin is SSB tier? He was in SSB fighting him, right, so he must've been SSB tier.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Aug 13 2017, 04:07 AM
She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Why didn't he use it against black? That line of questioning wouldn't prove your point regardless.

If he wants to save energy, he would use god like he's doing next episode. Goku isn't using Ssb and only using ssj3 level power. That's not a thing.

She overpowered Goku, shocked Toppo who is stronger than Ssb Goku and jiren needed to step up. How anyone could say that kale is ssj3 level or even worse, slightly above ssj2 Goku is beyond my comprehension. Must be the hatred for broly reaching kale.
He didn't use it against Black because if it put him out of commission, none of them would be able to escape with the time machine because Zamasu would've killed all of them once it ran out.

Are you totally ignoring the outright statement of Goku that said he was going to use a little more power, instead of, say, his full power?
That isn't the reason given in the story, just your assumption. Zamasu wasn't killing anyone since he's even weaker than trunks. He isn't a threat to vegeta or trunks, so Goku being weakened is irrelevant.

Could just claim that he didn't use kaioken against kale so he wasn't easy fodder to knock out afterwards.

goku went Ssb then said he was going to put out a little more power. The Kamehameha was a little more power than he was outputting in Ssb. Even if you say that Goku was talking about the jump from ssj2 to Ssb, how Goku defines that gap isn't relevant. If he thinks that ssj2 to Ssb is a little more power, then so what? He's still using Ssb level power since he's in Ssb.
I mean, cool, he doesn't want to be fodder so he can be knocked out, so he goes up against an opponent who's at least 3x stronger than him and could knock him out easily...?

It's...it's almost as if he can actively control how strong he is in SSB and 'SSB' isn't one set power...crazy, right? Unless Krillin is SSB tier? He was in SSB fighting him, right, so he must've been SSB tier.
Kale wasn't trying to knock him out the ring. There is no explanation for the lack of kaioken against kale just like against black. It's not an argument for Goku not being weaker than people clearly shown to be stronger than him.

It was already stated that Goku only went Ssb in the recruiting episodes to test his opponents. Only 17 was Ssb tier.
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Yu Narukami
Aug 13 2017, 08:11 PM
PikUpYourPantsPatrol
Aug 13 2017, 08:07 PM
Yu Narukami
Aug 13 2017, 07:59 PM
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Aug 13 2017, 07:53 PM
Yu Narukami
Aug 13 2017, 03:03 PM
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Aug 13 2017, 04:07 AM
She's obviously stronger than Ssb Goku since she walked through his Kamehameha and overpowered him. Was that gokus strongest Kamehameha? Probably not, though that's irrelevant.

She scared Toppo whom is stronger than Ssb goku and needed to be personally stopped by jiren. It's kind of common sense at that point.

Kale being ssj3 Goku level is laughable.

Goku isn't going to use Ssb without using Ssb level power. Makes zero sense and the form is a stamina guzzler as stated in the beginning of the tournament.

If he wants to save energy he would just use god and conserve stamina like in the next episode.
>Kale is stronger than SSB Goku
>Goku goes full power and it does nothing
>Goku doesn't use Kaioken

...why? If Kale is that strong, not using Kaioken presents the massive risk of him getting knocked out, so why wouldn't he use it?
Why didn't he use it against black? That line of questioning wouldn't prove your point regardless.

If he wants to save energy, he would use god like he's doing next episode. Goku isn't using Ssb and only using ssj3 level power. That's not a thing.

She overpowered Goku, shocked Toppo who is stronger than Ssb Goku and jiren needed to step up. How anyone could say that kale is ssj3 level or even worse, slightly above ssj2 Goku is beyond my comprehension. Must be the hatred for broly reaching kale.
He didn't use it against Black because if it put him out of commission, none of them would be able to escape with the time machine because Zamasu would've killed all of them once it ran out.

Are you totally ignoring the outright statement of Goku that said he was going to use a little more power, instead of, say, his full power?
Are you going to ignore the fact that kkx10 SSB is his full power and not just SSB? Don't give me that bs that he wouldn't be able to escape if it crippled his body. He's used kk how many times now?
Yeah, remember after the first time he used it, he was suffering from severe consequences that followed him for a little while?

Can you point to another situation in the manga where the Kaioken has been described as Goku's 'full power'? It's an amplification technique, his full power is just the amount of natural, non-amplified Ki he has in his body.

And you're still not answering the question; why didn't he use Kaioken against Kale? Point to other situations all you like, you've got to make some kind of overarching argument. Is it that Goku's dumb enough to not use his 'full power' Kaioken on an opponent he knows damn well he can't beat (and who could easily knock him out/off the stage)?
No, his full-power is literally that. The greatest amount of power he can put forth. You are trying to move the goalposts in your favor because your argument is indefensible. How is SSJ and different than kk? It's not, they both amplify his ki with set multipliers at the cost of stamina.

As I already said and shown you, he always takes a beating in weaker forms before transforming, wtf do you want? Idk why he does it, he just does.
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* Yu Narukami
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@Gogeta Sorry, but no. Firstly, where's the statement that Goku was holding back against everyone when recruiting them? Secondly, we get a statement from Goku that he's going to use 'a little more power', and you've just proven yourself that he can control how strong he is in SSB, so all you have to do is use a bit of logic.

And sorry, 'no explanation' doesn't fly. That's not an answer to my question, that's just a cop-out because your line of reasoning doesn't work at all.

@Pick So, I take it you didn't find any comment about Kaioken then? A person's full power is different from a technique that amplifies that power. Kaioken isn't his natural 'full power'.

And there it is. You don't want any discussion at all, do you? ''He just does''. That isn't an answer. You don't provide any kind of possible explanation for it.
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