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Where do you place Kale in terms of power?
Topic Started: Jul 23 2017, 06:57 PM (18,949 Views)
PikUpYourPantsPatrol
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And why?
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I don't think she's that much stronger than SSJ2 Goku. She didn't do any damage to him when she attacked him, and she was in full-on rage mode so it'd be unlikely she was consciously toying with him. Her tanking his Kamehameha could easily be attributed to him using Blue to better control the fight and underestimating her.
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He couldnt hurt her at all in SSJ2 so how do you have them similar? Why not go SSJ3? She grabbed him while SSB and he couldnt break free. Same in SSJ2
Edited by PikUpYourPantsPatrol, Jul 23 2017, 07:18 PM.
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A bit lower than Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
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The first thing Goku said after going Blue was that he was going to "let out more power." Already that should tell you something. Goku didn't try to get out of Kale's grip. He had his hands on her forearm, but he wasn't squirming around or showing signs of struggle. The hold was only for a few seconds anyway before she tossed him away and raged out again. The only time Goku showed any sort of pain was after Kale's ki volley, where he audibly said "ow" a couple times.

Hell, when she finished transforming, SSJ2 Goku stood in front of her simply admiring her power rather than quaking in fear of it. She was audibly trying to kill him and he was still able to block and dodge her attacks, as well as merely tolerate her bashing him around like Hulk did to Loki. Granted, none of his attacks fazed her, and he started to get overwhelmed by her persistent assault near the end of the Super Saiyan 2 portion, but still. I'm supposed to believe there's such a tiny gap between Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan Blue that Kale can be unable to kill the former but tank a Kamehameha from the latter? I don't buy it.

So aside from walking through a Kamehameha, I don't see what makes Berserker Kale a surefire Blue tier opponent.
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 23 2017, 11:41 PM.
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Re-watching the fight.

So it starts off with Kale stepping up to SS2 Goku. She his throwing hits at him and he dodges them. She then grabs him and begins pounding him, he is making noises as she slams him onto the ground. So far it's safe to assume she's stronger than a Super Saiyan 2. Goku then is finally able to loosen his grip from Kale. He then proceeds to attack her in the face and then several times in the chest, but no damage is done. She doesn't even budge. So far he's dodged most of her attacks, but she is able to grab him and slam him into some boulders. After that Goku flies back towards her and Kale grabs his face and drags it into the floor. Goku then tries to attack her to loosen her grip. But nothing, Kale then throws him into another boulder and then blasts him. Kale then screams annoyingly over and over Son Goku. Then Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan Blue, obviously realizing he can do nothing as a Super Saiyan 2. So he jumped to Blue not to Super Saiyan 3, which means Super Saiyan 3 wouldn't be strong enough either. After transforming into a Super Saiyan Blue, Goku charges a Kamehameha and fires it at Kale. She walks straight through it, no damage done. Didn't even stop her. During the Kamehameha you can tell by the tone of Goku's voice that he puts more power into the attack, but still nothing. Kale then reaches through the wave and grabs Goku's face. He is seriously struggling to get out and she is squeezing hard based on the veins in her arm. Suddenly she has having issues with her power so she throws Goku off to the side and that's the end of the fight. Once Goku comes out of the rubble in his base form he says "ow, ow."

There's no indication in this fight that Kale is actually even below Super Saiyan Blue.
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I'd place her somewhere between Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 Goku, as things stand right now. I presume Goku opted for Blue simply because Super Saiyan 3 has stamina issues.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jul 24 2017, 12:25 AM
I'd place her somewhere between Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 Goku, as things stand right now. I presume Goku opted for Blue simply because Super Saiyan 3 has stamina issues.
Super Saiyan Blue has stamina issues as well. It has more strain than SS3.

Edit: Where Goku's power is at now he shouldn't even have strain with SS3 anymore.
Edited by Son-Goku, Jul 24 2017, 12:28 AM.
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Greenough
Jul 24 2017, 12:26 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jul 24 2017, 12:25 AM
I'd place her somewhere between Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 Goku, as things stand right now. I presume Goku opted for Blue simply because Super Saiyan 3 has stamina issues.
Super Saiyan Blue has stamina issues as well. It has more strain than SS3.

Edit: Where Goku's power is at now he shouldn't even have strain with SS3 anymore.
What...? It's never suggested that Blue has a greater issue with stamina.

I'm pretty sure that's not how that works.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jul 24 2017, 12:29 AM
Greenough
Jul 24 2017, 12:26 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jul 24 2017, 12:25 AM
I'd place her somewhere between Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 Goku, as things stand right now. I presume Goku opted for Blue simply because Super Saiyan 3 has stamina issues.
Super Saiyan Blue has stamina issues as well. It has more strain than SS3.

Edit: Where Goku's power is at now he shouldn't even have strain with SS3 anymore.
What...? It's never suggested that Blue has a greater issue with stamina.

I'm pretty sure that's not how that works.
In any case Goku still would have been stronger in Blue than SS3.

Why shouldn't it work like that? Super Saiyan had incredible strain on the body until they mastered it.

Edit: I feel like everyone just doesn't want to believe that Kale is that strong. I know I don't, but we saw how powerful she is and we can't just ignore it. No matter how stupid it is.
Edited by Son-Goku, Jul 24 2017, 12:32 AM.
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Greenough
Jul 24 2017, 12:31 AM
In any case Goku still would have been stronger in Blue than SS3.

Why shouldn't it work like that? Super Saiyan had incredible strain on the body until they mastered it.

Edit: I feel like everyone just doesn't want to believe that Kale is that strong. I know I don't, but we saw how powerful she is and we can't just ignore it. No matter how stupid it is.
Why? He lowered his power to Kuririn's level when they fought.

The issues with stamina were resolved by mastering the form, not by simply getting stronger. There hasn't been any indication that Goku has mastered Super Saiyan 3.

I mean, I'll admit I'm certainly biased, but her performance against Cabba guides my opinion here.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jul 24 2017, 12:37 AM.
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She's nowhere near SSJB. If she was then she would've crushed Goku's skull when she was screaming KILL KILL KILL with her hand covering his face.
Edited by Slifer, Jul 24 2017, 12:39 AM.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jul 24 2017, 12:36 AM
Greenough
Jul 24 2017, 12:31 AM
In any case Goku still would have been stronger in Blue than SS3.

Why shouldn't it work like that? Super Saiyan had incredible strain on the body until they mastered it.

Edit: I feel like everyone just doesn't want to believe that Kale is that strong. I know I don't, but we saw how powerful she is and we can't just ignore it. No matter how stupid it is.
Why? He lowered his power to Kuririn's level when they fought.

The issues with stamina were resolved by mastering the form, not by simply getting stronger. There hasn't been any indication that Goku has mastered Super Saiyan 3.

I mean, I'll admit I'm certainly biased, but her performance against Cabba certainly guides my opinion here.
I don't consider anything during the gathering of warriors valid.

I mean yeah, I guess I was just assuming he got over it. There still are statements about Blue having stamina issues.

I see, yeah once again I don't consider anything during the gathering of warriors valid.
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If struggling to get out of her grip means not showing any signs of struggling, then I agree.

Also, there's no explanation for her not straight up ripping his head off when he was a Super Saiyan 2 if she was Blue level. That'd be like Goku not being able to kill Krillin.
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 24 2017, 12:42 AM.
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Pyrus
Jul 24 2017, 12:41 AM
If struggling to get out of her grip means not showing any signs of struggling, then I agree.

Also, there's no explanation for her not straight up ripping his head off when he was a Super Saiyan 2 if she was Blue level. That'd be like Goku not being able to kill Krillin.
I mean, he did about as much as anyone has done in that kind of situation. He gripped her wrists. That's the same thing Yamcha did when Gero grabbed his face then stabbed him in the chest.

Edit: We already know she didn't have very well control of her power.
Edited by Son-Goku, Jul 24 2017, 12:48 AM.
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