What If Trump Actually Manages To...

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What If Trump Actually Manages To...
Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2017, 10:12 PM (1,708 Views)
* Mitas	Jun 10 2017, 06:40 PM Post #16
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	I think this thread (as in the question) highlights how people really can't understand the gravity of what Hitler actually did.
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


Political Piper	Jun 12 2017, 06:40 AM Post #17
Posts: 449 Group: Member Member #13,465 Joined: August 23, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Chrome	Mitas Jun 10 2017, 06:40 PM I think this thread (as in the question) highlights how people really can't understand the gravity of what Hitler actually did. Really? I think Lazerbem and I both made our beliefs known that comparing anyone to Hitler is nonsensical. Our debate dealt with which political party most aptly aligned with The Nationalist Socialist Party of Germany. But I agree, the comparing of person x to Hitler is ludicrous. If more people understood what Hitler did they wouldn't be making outrageous comparisons Edited by Political Piper, Jun 12 2017, 06:41 AM.
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* Mitas	Jun 12 2017, 09:09 AM Post #18
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	Political Piper Jun 12 2017, 06:40 AM Mitas Jun 10 2017, 06:40 PM I think this thread (as in the question) highlights how people really can't understand the gravity of what Hitler actually did. Really? I think Lazerbem and I both made our beliefs known that comparing anyone to Hitler is nonsensical. Our debate dealt with which political party most aptly aligned with The Nationalist Socialist Party of Germany. But I agree, the comparing of person x to Hitler is ludicrous. If more people understood what Hitler did they wouldn't be making outrageous comparisons Like I said, the question, or more specifically, the comparison. My statement wasn't aimed at you or Lazerbem, more at people comparing Trump to Hitler (which like you said, is nonsensical).
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


Darker	Jun 12 2017, 10:11 PM Post #19
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,358 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Mitas Jun 10 2017, 06:40 PM I think this thread (as in the question) highlights how people really can't understand the gravity of what Hitler actually did. Probably a matter about how you were educated. I won't side with any opinions though, everyone knows that what they teach you at school can be wonky when talking about it with others.
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Fulgore	Jul 14 2017, 10:04 PM Post #20
The Darkness Returns Posts: 3,163 Group: Member Member #5,205 Joined: September 2, 2010	lazerbem Jun 1 2017, 10:59 PM Quote: If you are talking about socialism The frick does that have to do with Hitler? He was a fascist who hated socialists. Just because the Nazis had it in their name doesn't make them socialists anymore than it makes North Korea a people's republic because it's in the name Quote: Hillary and Bernie both were closer to Hitler than Trump. No, they weren't. Trump is a reactionary right wing politician who relied on populism to get to his position. Hitler also follows that description. Hillary and Bernie are centrist and left wing respectively, and both would are diametrically opposed in policy to anything remotely Hitler-like. Why do you think that all the neo-nazis went with Trump and that there's been a resurgence in various racial hate movements? Calling Trump Hitler is an exaggeration, but he does have far more in common with him than Hillary or Bernie. How did you get mod acting like that? SMH. Hitler had one of the strongest states in existence. Socialism was part of it.
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DanielSan	Jul 22 2017, 10:17 PM Post #21
Posts: 1,536 Group: Donator Member #5,730 Joined: February 14, 2011	It is interesting that Hitler would use the term National Socialist if he really was not in fact a socialist at all. Hitler and the Nazi's of that time were definitely fascists, and were not truly socialists at all, however, it is very removed from modern day American Conservatism. There is a subset of people that genuinely believe that Hitler would be a modern day US Democrat or socialist in today's atmosphere, but that is simply wrong. For one Hitler was not exactly a political theorist, and was not really interested in the nuances of the subject. Hitler's main beliefs were very simplistic. He believed in the superiority of the Germans, and the inferiority of the Jews. His choice of the name socialist was a ploy to gather and rally the working class around him. To make himself popular so he could get into power. Secondly, another important point to make was he sent socialists to the concentration camps. Also on the actual subject, comparing Hitler and Trump is a classic Reductio ad Hitlerum. It is asinine to compare those two men. If you really believe Trump is the same as Hitler then you should probably be protesting to get him impeach. Also what is the context? What will Trump replicate exactly? Edited by DanielSan, Jul 22 2017, 10:21 PM.



Tinny	Jul 23 2017, 12:46 AM Post #22
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	DanielSan Jul 22 2017, 10:17 PM It is interesting that Hitler would use the term National Socialist if he really was not in fact a socialist at all. Hitler and the Nazi's of that time were definitely fascists, and were not truly socialists at all, however, it is very removed from modern day American Conservatism. There is a subset of people that genuinely believe that Hitler would be a modern day US Democrat or socialist in today's atmosphere, but that is simply wrong. In specific regards to Hitler and the term, his party used to house outright socialists. However iirc, during the Night of the Long Knives, much of the socialist (and less loyal to Hitler) elements of the party were killed, leaving mostly Hitler's own vision for the Party. It can more or less be considered a relic of the party's inception, to the point where the "mainstream" nazi party has little to do with socialism. The more socialist part of the Nazi party, would later become Strasserism, which also opposed the Jews for example, but more on an anti-capitalist crusade, than one about race. The founder of that strand, Otto Strasser, was expelled from the party and fled to Czechoslovakia, while Gregor Strasser would be killed during the aforementioned night of the long knives. Edited by Tinny, Jul 23 2017, 12:48 AM.
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Fulgore	Jul 23 2017, 03:35 PM Post #23
The Darkness Returns Posts: 3,163 Group: Member Member #5,205 Joined: September 2, 2010	The nazis were socialist by defintion. All means of production were controlled by the state. Wages were determined by state. Basically, you went along with whatever the state deemed the greater good. That was the bottom line. Socialism is authoritarian.
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Tinny	Jul 23 2017, 04:40 PM Post #24
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Fulgore Jul 23 2017, 03:35 PM The nazis were socialist by defintion. All means of production were controlled by the state. Wages were determined by state. Basically, you went along with whatever the state deemed the greater good. That was the bottom line. Socialism is authoritarian. Fulgore, no offense, but you'd have not only have not read this thread, but not actualy have any experience regarding the Third Reich or even the basic concepts of Socialism, Nazism, and authoritarianism. Socialism is an incredibly broad word to use almost to be point of uselessness, with them ranging the spectrum from Stalin's Socialism in one country, to Trotsky's world Revolution, to Strasserism, to Anarchist-socialism, the last of which in particular is very anti-authoritarian, Marxist socialism plans to have the state government wither away into little more than a public service as well, how is that authoritarian? If you think socialism and socialist revolutions inevitably lead there that's one thing, but from you say you seem to believe they're somehow intertwined. Regarding Germany specifically here is the abstract from the paper linked here. Quote: The Great Depression spurred State ownership in Western capitalist countries. Germany was noexception; the last governments of the Weimar Republic took over firms in diverse sectors. Later, the Nazi regime transferred public ownership and public services to the private sector. In doing so, they went against the mainstream trends in the Western capitalist countries, none of which systematically reprivatized firms during the 1930s. Privatization in Nazi Germany was also unique in transferring to private hands the delivery of public services previously provided by government. The firms and the services transferred to private ownership belonged to diverse sectors. Privatization was part of an intentional policy with multiple objectives and was not ideologically driven. As in many recent privatizations, particularly within the European Union, strong financial restrictions were a central motivation. In addition, privatization was used as a political tool to enhance support for the government and for the Nazi Party. Privatization by it's very nature is not socialist. And frankly I'd argue that it isn't socialism until the factories and other work places are being run more akin to a democracy like Athens than a dictatorship like Stalin or Hitler's. Hell the left wing of the Nazi party (the more socialist leaning parts) before the Night of the Long Knives explicitly called themselves a third way between communism and capitalism. The Nazi party is not socialist, before they might've been, but certainly not the party as everyone thinks of them today. They were all killed in 1934. Any attempts to treat the Nazis post July 1934 like they're socialists is simply mistaken, or trying to blame all the worlds ills on one particular ideology. And no Authoritarianism is characterized by a strong form of central government and reduced political rights, while socialism is characterized by social ownership and democratic control over the means of production (think roads, electricity, and factories being owned by say, the trade unions in a form of democracy, for contrast the way businesses are set up are more akin to dictatorships or oligarchies with a few at the top making the decisions). If anything these two concepts should be opposing each other, though this isn't impossible to have them mix as shown by the USSR, particularly under Stalin. And frankly, if we go by your definition, than the United Kingdom was also socialist, as well as the act of conscription being socialist. Both of which are... Patently untrue. If you're willing to listen eight minutes, Bad Mouse Productions (and outright Anarchist Socialist) talks about Authoritarianism, Anarchism, and Marxism in this video. he actually argues it is impossible for anyone to bring about a communist nation using the state due to it's vary nature as the state. Regardless if you think his views are or should be attainable, does he actually sound like someone with the views of an authoritarian? Edited by Tinny, Jul 23 2017, 04:53 PM.
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