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The Toiurnament of Power - Goku Scale
Topic Started: May 14 2017, 04:33 AM (3,418 Views)
Kblo247
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I've come up with the following using Goku as the scale or measuring stick for entering the tourney after all these recruitment episodes sans Frieza and Vegeta's ROSAT trip.

Base Goku
- Weaker than him = Tien (Goku tells him to stay back vs Roshi)
- Weaker but able to defend against = Max Power Roshi (he didn't land a punch on Goku)
- Equal = Krillin (Goku couldn't stop him from pushing him w/o going SS)

SSJ Goku
- Stronger than Base but weaker than ssj = 18 (she's Krillins superior)
- Able to put up a fight = Weighted Piccolo (using the Gohan fights to scale him)
- Rivaling him = Fit Buu (fits you're faster and have that power, plus Goku saying ow, ow)

SSJ2 Goku
- weaker than ssj2 but stronger than SS = Piccolo (stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, weaker than Ultimate)
- Equal to him fighting = Ultimate Gohan normal fighting

Blue Goku
- Weaker all together = Golden Frieza (problem with stamina hurt him and not training)
- Weaker but can fight him = 17 (goes with him saying he would lose if they kept going)
- Can rival him but not quite his equal = Ultimate Gohan fighting at his max and limits

Kaioken Blue Goku
- Vegeta (will fall somewhere in there with the multiples)

Thoughts please?
Edited by Kblo247, May 14 2017, 04:34 AM.
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What so 18 is stronger than majin buu ? :D

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Kblo247
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I didn't list her as stronger than Buu?
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What about Super Saiyan 3?
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Kblo247
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Well it's hard to gauge. They have purposely avoided it like the plague outside the Future Trunks return. I can't tell if they are going for either of these reasons

1) They are saving it to associate with the Cabba saiyans as commercial materials. It would make sense to have them all screw up with their transformations and learn the lessons and downfalls our saiyans learned. It also could lead to a ton of new dlc, Dokkan cards, hero cards, etc.

2) They have written it off as inferior completely to SSJ2 the same way ASSJ/USSJ was written out. We have sen ssj2 rival or surpass it numerous times. Vegeta made Beerus put in work as a SSJ2 when 3 was flicked away. Ssj3 Gotenks got tanked by base copy Vegeta. Trunks had power that rivaled ssj3 as a SSJ2. Goku would rather rest people like Zamasu and Black as ssj2, hell test Gohan. The limits to the power it can output, the speed, the rage boosts, and lack of stamina issues seem to paint it as vastly superior to 3 now

For argument sake, we may see it in the tournament vs Bergamo who was getting blitzed by ssj but only buckled with ssjb kaioken. He is probably the middle ground.

I just think for Goku and company it is an obsolete form as they have learned how to make ssj2 as powerful if not more. I think Toei and bandai give it to the other universe saiyans


Could also be used as an a*** pull power up and measuring stick for Goten and Trunks if they want to age them and have them fight without being Gotenks too as it makes them stronger but keeps them firmly below a good number of people
Edited by Kblo247, May 14 2017, 07:03 AM.
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Kblo247
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Some showings throughout this arc to tkae into mind

Krillin vs 18
Spoiler: click to toggle


Krillin vs Goku
Spoiler: click to toggle


Base Gohan vs Piccolo w/ weights
Spoiler: click to toggle


SSJ Gohan vs Piccolo
Spoiler: click to toggle


SSJ2 Gohan vs Piccolo
Spoiler: click to toggle


Fit Buu (Goku says ow 3x and calls him amazing 2x more after this)
Spoiler: click to toggle


Regular Roshi vs Tien ( comparable as Tien lands a few blows, he seems to be faster but Roshi hits harder)
Spoiler: click to toggle


Buff Roshi vs Goku
Spoiler: click to toggle


17 vs Goku
Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Kblo247, May 15 2017, 03:22 AM.
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Muyasuki
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I think your "Goku scale" works perfect for this arc (and, honestly, almost every arc). Only two placements I don't agree with: Unweighted Piccolo and (potentially) 18. Of the cast; she's far and away the hardest to peg down.
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Kblo247
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Muyasuki
May 15 2017, 01:35 AM
I think your "Goku scale" works perfect for this arc (and, honestly, almost every arc). Only two placements I don't agree with: Unweighted Piccolo and (potentially) 18. Of the cast; she's far and away the hardest to peg down.
Where would you have them?

As far as Piccolo, we saw him choke out Gohan. Goku expects Gohan to match ssj2 with ssj. We can comfortably say Goku uses ssj2 as his test an opponent level with Trunks, Zamasu, Black, and Gohan. I'm not saying he is as strong as ssj2 Goku but that he falls in his tier, even if it is the bottom half of his ssj2 power. Piccolo at his max without weights just gets placed there for me personally as he and Gohan had trained some more.

I have 18 at ssj tier because she is stronger than Krillin, even though she tells him he fights her too soft. If we go by the fact Goku even with his feet planted can't stop Krillin from pushing him out of bounds without going super is telling. 18 says Krillin burned some power and stamina with solar flare x100 but he obviously saved his share of it , as he told Gohan he wouldn't show him all his tricks and wanted to fight Goku, knowing full well what Goku was. 18 is stronger and jumps into the fight to help him. That makes me think she is roughly in the ssj tier, not top half, but that she can hold her own to a level of first stage ssj Goku. I think she would clearly overwhelm base if Krillin could push Goku though, especially with her stamina. I still keep her below weighted Piccolo and Buu. I also have her there because 17 is her twin and Goku says going in he only expected to use ssj at the first level to test him, so I figure he based his projection of 17 off of 18
Edited by Kblo247, May 15 2017, 03:31 AM.
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Amerson26
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Kblo247
May 15 2017, 03:15 AM
Muyasuki
May 15 2017, 01:35 AM
I think your "Goku scale" works perfect for this arc (and, honestly, almost every arc). Only two placements I don't agree with: Unweighted Piccolo and (potentially) 18. Of the cast; she's far and away the hardest to peg down.
Where would you have them?

As far as Piccolo, we saw him choke out Gohan. Goku expects Gohan to match ssj2 with ssj. We can comfortably say Goku uses ssj2 as his test an opponent level with Trunks, Zamasu, Black, and Gohan. I'm not saying he is as strong as ssj2 Goku but that he falls in his tier, even if it is the bottom half of his ssj2 power. Piccolo at his max without weights just gets placed there for me personally as he and Gohan had trained some more.

I have 18 at ssj tier because she is stronger than Krillin, even though she tells him he fights her too soft. If we go by the fact Goku even with his feet planted can't stop Krillin from pushing him out of bounds without going super is telling. 18 says Krillin burned some power and stamina with solar flare x100 but he obviously saved his share of it , as he told Gohan he wouldn't show him all his tricks and wanted to fight Goku, knowing full well what Goku was. 18 is stronger and jumps into the fight to help him. That makes me think she is roughly in the ssj tier, not top half, but that she can hold her own to a level of first stage ssj Goku. I think she would clearly overwhelm base if Krillin could push Goku though, especially with her stamina. I still keep her below weighted Piccolo and Buu. I also have her there because 17 is her twin and Goku says going in he only expected to use ssj at the first level to test him, so I figure he based his projection of 17 off of 18
When you say 18 is Ssj tir which Ssj you talking about?
Ssj goku android sega
Ssj goku at cell games
Ssj goku doing buu sega
Ssj goku doing battle of gods
Ssj goku at universe 6
Ssj goku doing goku black arc
Ssj goku current for tournament power

All of theses goku are at different levels. And I know for sure 18 is not stronger then a cells game goku.
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Kblo247
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You really don't know they for sure. Krillin can push a Goku that has to be on par with base Vegeta who has feats. Goku couldn't stop sliding with his feet planted without overwhelming him with ssj. 18 is stated as being stronger than her husband.

And to be technical krillin knocks Goku back 3x in their fight. Goku approaches like a cannon ball and he blasts him out the air and back into place. He punched Goku with his guard up and slid him. Then he pushed him back and was sliding him clean off the platform with Goku feet set to be used super saiyan to overwhelm him with sheer power. If krillin can do that based off the narrative when we have seen people not budge a base Vegeta in Gotenks, 18 as his superior would overwhelm the base saiyans too over time since she can still beat Krillin in their spars as seen when the neighbors comment on them fighting outside escalating nowadays. I mean 18 unlike 17 isn't known for a shield, just her hands and feet plus stamina.

Goku goes off to fight and scout 17. The first thing he does and says to identify him is talk about him looking like his twin by the eyes. 17 is only mentioned because 18 again his twin is thought of as being a team add. Goku tells 17 he only planned on going ssj to evaluate him, but the fact is he jumped straight to ssj off initial expectations.

Krillin also made the bold statement of 18 and him can find a way to beat Goku and Gohan straight up.

We also still have Super being based off Kai. They kept the scene in Kai when Mighty Mask is cut in to two people Ssj Goten and Ssj Trunks charge her at the same time but can't land a blow

She's in a tier where Goku plans to use Ssj as of right now at his current level to test her twin who she is supposed to be similar to as far as they all knew. Goku underestimated 17 but he's still projecting to fight something on that level whereas he only used Ssj to stop Krillin from pushing him and then only used Blue to test his fear instinct t
Edited by Kblo247, May 15 2017, 11:27 AM.
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Kblo247
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I'm just saying that these are slightly improved versions of Goten and Trunks that were able to land a blow on Gohan and Vegeta, yet can't touch her after she's trained for a month to enter the budokai and win money. Kai keeps that scene from Z of two Ssj boys charging her all out and her defending herself just fine.

They also keep the RoF lines in Super of her saying she's stronger than the guys. Roshi also says she could go and save Goku and Krillin in the forest trip if she chose to
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Muyasuki
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Kblo247
May 15 2017, 03:15 AM
Muyasuki
May 15 2017, 01:35 AM
I think your "Goku scale" works perfect for this arc (and, honestly, almost every arc). Only two placements I don't agree with: Unweighted Piccolo and (potentially) 18. Of the cast; she's far and away the hardest to peg down.
Where would you have them?

As far as Piccolo, we saw him choke out Gohan. Goku expects Gohan to match ssj2 with ssj. We can comfortably say Goku uses ssj2 as his test an opponent level with Trunks, Zamasu, Black, and Gohan. I'm not saying he is as strong as ssj2 Goku but that he falls in his tier, even if it is the bottom half of his ssj2 power. Piccolo at his max without weights just gets placed there for me personally as he and Gohan had trained some more.

I have 18 at ssj tier because she is stronger than Krillin, even though she tells him he fights her too soft. If we go by the fact Goku even with his feet planted can't stop Krillin from pushing him out of bounds without going super is telling. 18 says Krillin burned some power and stamina with solar flare x100 but he obviously saved his share of it , as he told Gohan he wouldn't show him all his tricks and wanted to fight Goku, knowing full well what Goku was. 18 is stronger and jumps into the fight to help him. That makes me think she is roughly in the ssj tier, not top half, but that she can hold her own to a level of first stage ssj Goku. I think she would clearly overwhelm base if Krillin could push Goku though, especially with her stamina. I still keep her below weighted Piccolo and Buu. I also have her there because 17 is her twin and Goku says going in he only expected to use ssj at the first level to test him, so I figure he based his projection of 17 off of 18
In terms of Piccolo; I think given where Mystic Gohan is post training and where he was pre ... it's possible Piccolo could be closer to 17 than where you have him.

18 ... where you have her is her floor level for me (and honestly based on what was shown; I think where you have her is likely correct). I think (given a LOT of her statements in Super) I wouldn't be surprised if she too is close to 17 or at least at weight Piccolo (if it follows Android saga where the difference between weighted and unweighted Piccolo seemed to be the power difference between 17 and 18).
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Kblo247
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Muyasuki
May 15 2017, 09:40 PM
Kblo247
May 15 2017, 03:15 AM
Muyasuki
May 15 2017, 01:35 AM
I think your "Goku scale" works perfect for this arc (and, honestly, almost every arc). Only two placements I don't agree with: Unweighted Piccolo and (potentially) 18. Of the cast; she's far and away the hardest to peg down.
Where would you have them?

As far as Piccolo, we saw him choke out Gohan. Goku expects Gohan to match ssj2 with ssj. We can comfortably say Goku uses ssj2 as his test an opponent level with Trunks, Zamasu, Black, and Gohan. I'm not saying he is as strong as ssj2 Goku but that he falls in his tier, even if it is the bottom half of his ssj2 power. Piccolo at his max without weights just gets placed there for me personally as he and Gohan had trained some more.

I have 18 at ssj tier because she is stronger than Krillin, even though she tells him he fights her too soft. If we go by the fact Goku even with his feet planted can't stop Krillin from pushing him out of bounds without going super is telling. 18 says Krillin burned some power and stamina with solar flare x100 but he obviously saved his share of it , as he told Gohan he wouldn't show him all his tricks and wanted to fight Goku, knowing full well what Goku was. 18 is stronger and jumps into the fight to help him. That makes me think she is roughly in the ssj tier, not top half, but that she can hold her own to a level of first stage ssj Goku. I think she would clearly overwhelm base if Krillin could push Goku though, especially with her stamina. I still keep her below weighted Piccolo and Buu. I also have her there because 17 is her twin and Goku says going in he only expected to use ssj at the first level to test him, so I figure he based his projection of 17 off of 18
In terms of Piccolo; I think given where Mystic Gohan is post training and where he was pre ... it's possible Piccolo could be closer to 17 than where you have him.

18 ... where you have her is her floor level for me (and honestly based on what was shown; I think where you have her is likely correct). I think (given a LOT of her statements in Super) I wouldn't be surprised if she too is close to 17 or at least at weight Piccolo (if it follows Android saga where the difference between weighted and unweighted Piccolo seemed to be the power difference between 17 and 18).
I would mark out if Piccolo got stronger. It's hard to tell because we know Goku and Gohan take the two senzus that they had originally for Gohan and Piccolo.

In a perfect world, I would give Krillin the ssj bump, 18 the ssj2 bump, and Piccolo the ssj3 bump. That's just my particular preferences though and I what I would like to see. 18 and Krillin have been training together as the neighbors comment on it. Piccolo worked with Gohan as you said. Without Buu, I wouldn't mind Piccolo, 18, and Krillin all getting raised a peg. I wouldn't raise Roshi or Tien but I would those 3 if given a choice or preference. I also would put Vegeta firmly in the Kaioken x3 or x4 range as a nod to their first battle when he exits the ROSAT
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I'll Take This
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Goku has a new form. Bank on it, otherwise they wouldn't make SSJB look like a joke
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18 is stronger than krillin but


Krillin is noway equal to base goku. Remember when gohan in base trashed him ? Krillin could only do something against goku while they played by the tournament rules. Or unless base untrained gohan is stronger than base goku.

This theory that krillin equal to base goku is like saying piccolo was equsl to final form frieza just for the fact he kicked him away once

Base vegeta was above ssj3 gotenks and for me untrained base gohan was also below ssj3 gotebks and while he wrecked krillin he shouls be too below base vegeta

As for android 18 krillin could fight back so she shall be too weaket than gotenks and thus vasr goku

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