Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
17 beeing around SSJB seems legit to me
Topic Started: Apr 18 2017, 06:11 AM (1,982 Views)
RealSociedad
Default Avatar


The guy never trained, was deactivated for years, yet was way beyond Frieza and the initial super saiyans. Al those years of trainings should have gave him enough boost to rival SSJB. Doesnt seem strange to me.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
EMIYA
Member Avatar
"I am the bone of my sword."

Except No. 17 wasn't strong because of natural powers, it was because of the experimentation that Gero did to him. Otherwise he was just another ordinary human with nothing special about him. Heck, the only reason I believe No. 17 and No. 18 can even get stronger is because of their organic parts. They were basically given their powers by Gero's work and have nothing to show that they were naturally strong to begin with.

All of the cyborgs are as strong as they are because they were built as such to be strong.

There's no reason for No. 17 to have gotten as strong as he did in such a relatively short time, especially with little to even train himself with. In the end, No. 17 wasn't born with his power, he was given it to him. His potential isn't like Freeza in that regard.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pyrus
Member Avatar


It's about as legit as a toilet that can't get clogged, or the Titanic being unsinkable.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
superperfectnerd
Member Avatar


It isn't even him being that strong that bothers me, it's how he got so strong. We aren't talking measly ssj levels anymore, we're talking god levels and the saiyans have a special ritual to get them there. Z used to give us new methods of powering up as well as stronger foes to overcome. 17 is stronger because...he trained. Where? How? He has no sparring partners, no magic wielding gods to summon limitless weights for him and no gravity chambers to exert stress on his body. No ROSAT trips, no elder kai ritual, no fusion, no godly training from Whis. What did he do? Spar a rhino?
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Goddess Ultimecia
Member Avatar


Godly training was kind of poop from what I remember, it basically consisted of sparring and then lifting bigger weights.
Posted Image

NinjaSushi Colouring
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
superperfectnerd
Member Avatar


True but they were sparring Whis, the strongest in the universe and clearly those weights were immense.

My logic is this, since Beerus came along and humbled Goku effortlessly the other characters have been like, "s***, we can't just rely on Goku and Vegeta because we nearly all got wiped out, better start training".
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
FutureSaiyan
Member Avatar


Goddess Ultimecia
Apr 18 2017, 12:49 PM
Godly training was kind of poop from what I remember, it basically consisted of sparring and then lifting bigger weights.
It at least gave us a basis on which to make sense of Goku and Vegeta's enormous increase in power in a relatively short (compared to Z) period of time, and we had enough off screen training and time skips to presume Whiss used more variety/methods in his training, but at the very least they were being trained by the guy who trained the God of destruction. thats enough accountability right there.

Where as in this case.. its like a 10 year old just wanted the character to be strong and so he scripted it.
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Goddess Ultimecia
Member Avatar


superperfectnerd
 
True but they were sparring Whis, the strongest in the universe


No argument there.

superperfectnerd
 
clearly those weights were immense


Also depends on the version of Super we're talking about, in the manga that's sub 1000 tons since SSJ Vegeta can't lift Magetta. Anime is vague enough regarding weight that it could certainly be far and away immense compared to what we've seen before.

FutureSaiyan
 
we had enough off screen training and time skips to presume Whiss used more variety/methods in his training


I've no faith that they used anything different than the methods we've already seen used, training in dragonball's pretty static.

FutureSaiyan
 
They were being trained by the guy who trained the God of destruction. That's enough accountability right there


Ehh... as we've seen in BoG, having a high enough Battle Power brings you into consideration of being a God of Destruction candidate, which somewhat implies that Beerus was already immensely powerful by the time Whis got to him. About the only confirmation we have that Beerus even got any stronger under Whis is when Beerus and Whis are stated to have gotten stronger together when Vados brings up how she was superior to Whis at some point in the past.

As for my view on this, I love it. I like how to make up for everyone being relegated to cannon fodder or glorified SoS' they decided to completely throw out Da Rulebook on how Power Gaps and Power Gains work. Makes this far more entertaining compared to everyone else being there just to be there and hoping Goku and Vegeta do all the work.
Posted Image

NinjaSushi Colouring
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
superperfectnerd
Member Avatar


Goddess Ultimecia
Apr 18 2017, 01:05 PM
superperfectnerd
 
True but they were sparring Whis, the strongest in the universe


No argument there.

superperfectnerd
 
clearly those weights were immense


Also depends on the version of Super we're talking about, in the manga that's sub 1000 tons since SSJ Vegeta can't lift Magetta. Anime is vague enough regarding weight that it could certainly be far and away immense compared to what we've seen before.

FutureSaiyan
 
we had enough off screen training and time skips to presume Whiss used more variety/methods in his training


I've no faith that they used anything different than the methods we've already seen used, training in dragonball's pretty static.

FutureSaiyan
 
They were being trained by the guy who trained the God of destruction. That's enough accountability right there


Ehh... as we've seen in BoG, having a high enough Battle Power brings you into consideration of being a God of Destruction candidate, which somewhat implies that Beerus was already immensely powerful by the time Whis got to him. About the only confirmation we have that Beerus even got any stronger under Whis is when Beerus and Whis are stated to have gotten stronger together when Vados brings up how she was superior to Whis at some point in the past.

As for my view on this, I love it. I like how to make up for everyone being relegated to cannon fodder or glorified SoS' they decided to completely throw out Da Rulebook on how Power Gaps and Power Gains work. Makes this far more entertaining compared to everyone else being there just to be there and hoping Goku and Vegeta do all the work.
I agree that it's nice to see the other characters become relevant again but they could have done it better. We've literally all come up with better ways ourselves.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black
Member Avatar


Android 17 is now equal to SSJB because he was defending some stupid island for 10 years from some 5 PLs trash. Legit.

You know who is stronger than No. 17?

THIS guy.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Solid Snake
Member Avatar
滅Are you frightened?

The guy was enhanced to be superior to a alien who's growth rate was near Incalculable, Lapis came to be a match for Kamicollo, who's stronger than a Super Saiyan. He never touched his ki reserved at all, but this is the reason he became strong as heck. He has massive potential that was consequently, unleashed during the 10 year gap from then. So I don't find it farfetched.

Frieza (Namek) <<<< Lapis/17 <<<< Majin Buu <<<< Frieza (RoF w/4 months) <<<< Lapis/17 (10 yes) <<< Majin Buu (2 days)

Not really farfetched.
Posted Image
Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu


SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig

Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story

Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tOMMY pICKLES
Member Avatar
Yare Yare Daze

Pyrus
Apr 18 2017, 07:40 AM
It's about as legit as a toilet that can't get clogged, or the Titanic being unsinkable.
excuse me

https://youtu.be/3qeK_SoPGHM
Posted Image
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
superperfectnerd
Member Avatar


Solid Snake
Apr 19 2017, 08:56 PM
The guy was enhanced to be superior to a alien who's growth rate was near Incalculable, Lapis came to be a match for Kamicollo, who's stronger than a Super Saiyan. He never touched his ki reserved at all, but this is the reason he became strong as heck. He has massive potential that was consequently, unleashed during the 10 year gap from then. So I don't find it farfetched.

Frieza (Namek) <<<< Lapis/17 <<<< Majin Buu <<<< Frieza (RoF w/4 months) <<<< Lapis/17 (10 yes) <<< Majin Buu (2 days)

Not really farfetched.
Great potential isn't enough, what training could he do alone on an island?

Goku when he trains doesn't just go train, he says "let me train at King Kai's place" and now "let me train at Beerus' place" and Vegeta has his gravity chamber but even that is pretty insufficient these days.

If 17 had used any of those methods to catch up with or even surpass Goku and Vegeta, I'd be fine with it because as you said, he must have great potential but he should still need more than being a park ranger to bring it out, that's what doesn't make sense.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Saiyan Paladin
Member Avatar


It's no worse than Roshi being more valuable than a Yamcha who trained on Kaio's world and then 3 years for the Androids...
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Solid Snake
Member Avatar
滅Are you frightened?

superperfectnerd
Apr 19 2017, 11:02 PM
Solid Snake
Apr 19 2017, 08:56 PM
The guy was enhanced to be superior to a alien who's growth rate was near Incalculable, Lapis came to be a match for Kamicollo, who's stronger than a Super Saiyan. He never touched his ki reserved at all, but this is the reason he became strong as heck. He has massive potential that was consequently, unleashed during the 10 year gap from then. So I don't find it farfetched.

Frieza (Namek) <<<< Lapis/17 <<<< Majin Buu <<<< Frieza (RoF w/4 months) <<<< Lapis/17 (10 yes) <<< Majin Buu (2 days)

Not really farfetched.
Great potential isn't enough, what training could he do alone on an island?

Goku when he trains doesn't just go train, he says "let me train at King Kai's place" and now "let me train at Beerus' place" and Vegeta has his gravity chamber but even that is pretty insufficient these days.

If 17 had used any of those methods to catch up with or even surpass Goku and Vegeta, I'd be fine with it because as you said, he must have great potential but he should still need more than being a park ranger to bring it out, that's what doesn't make sense.
Vegeta trained on his lonesome twice in the series (once for the Artificial Humans and again for Goku "Black") and became superior to Goku, even though it was to a lesser extent for the AHs, but training by himself allowed for him to surpass those who had training partners.

Lapis, doesn't need to have a method for his power to rapidly be God level. Vegeta gotten so much stronger then "Black" that he stomped him, when all the rosat has to offer is child's play gravity (for him anyway) and fluctuating temperatures.
Posted Image
Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu


SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig

Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story

Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Super · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1

Theme Designed by McKee91