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| Power Scaling | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 17 2017, 02:01 PM (1,916 Views) | |
| superperfectnerd | Apr 17 2017, 02:01 PM Post #1 |
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Don't get this twisted, I am quite enjoying the show at the moment but the scaling? Oh boy. Now, I know what the defence league will say "there's always been huge power inconsistencies in Dragon Ball, power levels are bulls***, get over it." However, I think I'm right in saying that the big leaps in Z made more sense given that we were usually shown new methods of achieving their new power. Goku in Dragon Ball was the strongest on Earth, he learnt a lot about technique, energy control, sensing his opponents and how to be a great fighter but compared to an average saiyan he turned out to be piss weak. The answer to this problem, train in the afterlife under ten times gravity under the tutelage of a true God. Interesting new training method. Piccolo underwent the same training and seemingly powered up more. However, he had training partners and was stronger to begin with. Goku gets a zenkai from nearly dying and trains under 100 times gravity. Interesting new level of training. Vegeta takes on opponents stronger than he's ever faced and is also needed alive by Freeza, multiple zenkais for the first time. Interesting new power up method for saiyans. Piccolo arrives on Namek and needs a lot more power to fight Freeza, so he fuses with another Namekian. Interesting new power up method. Piccolo trains for three years and becomes massively stronger. He's sparring a ssj and he's also now a fused being, he's got a whole new ceilling for his potential. Vegeta trains at 300 times gravity for three years, taken training to massive new levels. Piccolo fuses with Kami to further increase his power and potential. ROSAT training under harsher conditions than ever and 1 year in 1 day. Interesting new training method plus assj and fpssj concepts. ssj2 Goku and Vegeta train for 7 years straight and get a bit stronger than Gohan and Cell were plus Goku discovers ssj3 thanks to the lessened strain of a dead body. Fusion, interesting new power up concept. Gohan has his potential fully unlocked and taken even further, hybrid power ftw. Then Super. Vegeta's rage...not really explained but...okay. Guess he's never seen Bulma hurt before, a least not when he cared. Ssjg form - interesting new lore and mythos, the only way to get an insane power up, enough to fight a destroyer god. Whis' training for Vegeta and Goku and ssjb, interesting new level of training by an angel. Freeza goes beyond a ssjb...in four months of training...all we see is him blasting holes through a weakling. Tagoma can't even keep up with rusty ssj Gohan, he can't be a decent partner for Freeza. Cabba can match Vegeta without even being tested enough to have become a ssj. Hit is strong because. Goku Black makes sense I guess. Trunks is strong from fighting Black but ssj rage is suddenly a thing. Not really explained. Krillin can give a tough fight to Goku ecause of strategy and rules of a tournament...okay I guess. Boo powers up in two hours punching rocks thrown by a relatively weak human. 17 has been training...don't know how, it doesn't tell us. Can match ssjb Goku. What? The god forms are meant to be this unobtainable level for an individual saiyan. I dont care how strong 17 and Freeza are, they should need special circumstances to reach that level, not just mystery training. |
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| Black | Apr 17 2017, 02:23 PM Post #2 |
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Welcome to DBSB - Dragon Ball Super Bulls*** world. I just explain it as Goku holding back in most cases, like with Krillin and No. 17. |
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| Kblo247 | Apr 17 2017, 04:55 PM Post #3 |
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What saiyans work hard for their power? The tailed ones?! Goten and Trunks are born without tails and go ssj from play fighting. Cabba is from a planet full of saiyans with no tail and Vegeta gets him to go super in 10 mins despite him not knowing of the form. Gotenks goes ssj3 with no problem. Pan is freaking flying into the stratosphere and carrying 3 people as a baby. I don't think it is hard to gain power. Goku, Vegeta, and yes Gohan are the last of their kind. Saiyans born with tails. And Gohan is an anomaly as he got power from rage and also got two free power ups from one guy touching his head and the other from sitting down. I honestly think the whole struggle of what Goku and Vegeta go through to be strong is what matters and makes them endearing to the others. I mean if we are being honest, it ain't the first time that we have seen others surpass Goku. Goku trained for years with kami to only see everyone from Chaiotzu to Yajirobe surpass him and his gains in a year with the same teaching for example. Goku and Vegeta are the definition of hard work beats talent that doesn't work hard |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 17 2017, 05:40 PM Post #4 |
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Exactly what kblo said. That's the point I've tried to get across. Goku and vegeta are primitive. They aren't this anatomically superior being and everything they accomplish should be put on a pedestal. I mean look at dragon ball. There were plenty of humans who were still somewhat close to goku even after his training with popo and kami. Goten and trunks and cabbe are more evolved than goku vegeta and gohan are. They're meant to be better than goku. 17 is literally meant to kill goku. Buu is a magic demon. They all have the advantage over goku. Goku is strong because of the work he puts in. Look at him he's always training, letting go of his pride to learn from others, and he loves the thought of competition because it's a way for him to improve himself. There are lessons in regard to work ethic to learn from him. Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 17 2017, 05:43 PM.
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| Kblo247 | Apr 17 2017, 07:28 PM Post #5 |
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Yeah brother I think people forget that Goku and Vegeta are dinosaurs since they are born tailed. Even Gohan has less potential than the boys. Those 3 are the dinosaurs. They all got touched by magic with the God Ritual, Babadi, Old Kai sure but they aren't gifted with high basements like Buu, 17, Frieza, Goten, Trunks, etc I would also add in that Krillin while he low key got the power up from guru, never got the special training, so he is more self taught with only Roshi influencing him |
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| + Pyrus | Apr 17 2017, 07:42 PM Post #6 |
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So much for Super Saiyan God being a level of power Goku never could've achieved on his own. If everyone else can do it, so could he. |
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| dragonballzshirts | Apr 17 2017, 09:41 PM Post #7 |
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Agreed. They really are devaluing Super Blue to a ridiculous level. There may be explanations, but I don't really care it doesn't work. Goku and Vegeta stand so far above everyone else in the universe much more the Earth it doesn't make any sense. He can test everyone he wants all he wants. But going Super Blue for everyone is getting silly. I really wish he would have held that back a little bit more. Android 17 should have had a good fight with SSJ Goku maybe even SSJ2 Goku whatever, and then been shown being surprised he had a far stronger level entirely During the tournament of power. Same applies to the pre-tournament that just happened. Why did he show everyone there the Godly powers of Super Blue!? That reaction should have been reserved for the actual tournament. Vegeta not being there was great, keeps a air of mystery to the other universes. Now it looks like there's tons of guys on Goku's level in the other universes and Earth has Master Roshi getting top billing! Like what is going on? All in all Super Blue has become the go to far too quickly and against anyone. Is it just to get into the anime as much as possible? Do they have plans for another transformation? I mean I guess Super Blue is like SSJ, so now there can be SB2, 3 and whatever. But regardless you can't suddenly have everyone up there power to match people who can fight with Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and Buu. Sorry Earth has no one else really. If after Goku and Vegeta there's Buu or Piccolo then Gohan then the Androids, Goten, Trunks. The difference in power after that should be huge! I can't believe the Supreme Kai devalued the universe and was like there's only 20 some planets. In the whole universe!? There's no one stronger? Hell go grab Freeza. I get this isn't a power fight, which is why I'm assuming they did it this way. But still what's strategy supposed to do against such immense difference in power for people like Roshi. Don't get me wrong love the dude but listing out everyone on Earth his power is at the bottom. But I'm sure he's been training and has some super cool new moves. I'm just wondering why he was a first thought and Goten and Trunks dropped. There's always been scaling problems but this has become pretty crazy haha. Really none of it matters I guess. The most annoying thing is Super Blue for everyone. They should have just had them stay in the form and say they've achieved a God level now. Everything else will be to rise the ranks of Gods or something I dunno. |
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| superperfectnerd | Apr 18 2017, 02:19 AM Post #8 |
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Alright, I missed a few. Goten and Trunks grew up with the perfect training partners in each other, Vegeta trained Trunks and Trunks trained Goten essentially by play fighting. They were born in a different time surrounded by ssj2s, super Namekians and super powerful androids, of course they'd be strong. Kid Trunks is th same tailless prodigy as future Trunks right? I mean biologically speaking they are the same, so why did future Trunks come out inferior to Gohan after two ROSAT trips, granted being ignored by Vegeta and not mastering ssj would make him not reach his full potential but if he's naturally a superior evolved saiyan he should still come out stronger than Gohan and Goku considering how strong Cabba was and going by that logic but he didn't. Why? Because it isn't just natural power and potential that matters and my point is that ssjg was heralded as universal level, the only way to confront Beerus, an entirely new realm of power never thought possible. Ssj was just a saiyan reaching a state of fury after reaching a certain level of power but saiyans usually died long before getting that chance. Ssjg is entirely different, it doesn't come early on versus the first villain who claims "I am the strongest in the universe", it comes now, after everything else and 17 can match it? How? How did he train exactly? Bench press the minotaurus a few times a day? You're describing it as if the saiyans are the underdogs, they're not, they are a natural warrior race. The likes of Raditz and Nappa may have been weak compared to Freeza's top henchmen ut in terms of his army the saiyans were his strongest fighters by far and they have the potential to get stronger and stronger. Freeza, Boo and 17's power ups take away from what is supposed to be special about the saiyans. Goku and Vegeta are natural warriors AND strive to get stronger and fight tough oponents and are lucky enough to be able to come back to life for another shot again and again. My point is that Dragon Ball isn't just about cool fights it was always about how the heroes will surpass their latest foe, Dragon Ball and Z gave us new methods for the Z fighters to achieve new powers, Super just says "they did more of the same" or "they trained...in some way". It lessens their achievements retroactively if 17 could have squashed Super Boo. |
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| Black | Apr 18 2017, 11:15 PM Post #9 |
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Can we all just agree that Toriyama just wrote himself into a corner again and he's trying to get away with little-to-no explanations at all? Super is super s*** in terms of any logical PLs, it won't work like in Z. People were complaining Z was a mess, but there at least freakin' Krillin of all people wouldn't jump from being Saiyan Saga level of power to besting Buu Saga characters just by lifting weights lol! |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 19 2017, 12:56 AM Post #10 |
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I think it was only implied in the DBS manga that cabbe is a more evolved saiyan Doesn't necessarily have to be applied to goten and trunks I guess. They're strong af because plot anyway |
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| Kblo247 | Apr 19 2017, 01:11 AM Post #11 |
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Future Trunks is a barrel of monkeys. In the anime he goes super after Gohan dies. In the manga he goes ssj rather quickly despite never training or being trained and is seen fighting base Gohan as a kid. The only thing we really know of him is he lacks drive and direction. HE relies on the zenkai even in the super manga by his own admission. And in the Super anime, he rather not fight as his first thought after his spar with Vegeta is yay I don't need to fight again. We also have other timeline versions using the remote to deactivate the cyborgs. His personality is much more chill than his kid variation |
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| Sam | Apr 19 2017, 12:33 PM Post #12 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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Yes, but, I'm still finding ways to enjoy the show. To attempt any rationalization effort of power levels at this point would be hilariously incredulous and a pointless exercise. |
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| Kblo247 | Apr 19 2017, 08:14 PM Post #13 |
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People talking about Krillin limiting weights but we all know he spends his time smashing his infinite stamina wife. Krillins new routine is police work, parent, clanging and banging, eating tacos, and smashing 18. Don't hate! |
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| Black | Apr 19 2017, 10:08 PM Post #14 |
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Lmao, I give up. That's the best in-universe explanation of someone's power I've ever read. You should totally write scenario for DBS in Toriyama's place. |
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| dragonballzshirts | Apr 19 2017, 10:12 PM Post #15 |
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First @Kblo247 haha you're right Krillin's been getting the best training routine of all. Of course he's improved Second @Sam, yeah I agree gotta just enjoy it for what it is. Just wish they did a better job. They did fine in the Android, Cell and Buu sagas. No one was useful then either but it worked! Well no gotta give props to my boy Tien for punking the hell out of Imperfect Cell with his Tribeam. But other than that everyone was useless. I mean Cell was like let's have a tournament like what tournament they didn't bother with any fights. Straight to Goku and everyone acknowledging they weren't doing anything. Though it still worked and they played a little role at the end. But now they want to act like their power is suddenly worth mentioning against the Gods and top tier other universes. I guess they didn't want to include new characters and wanted to make the classics relevant but they were playing their role fine. We like seeing them and being funny. No need to shove down our throats they can fight too. Just stop letting Gohan be a chump that's it (why the glasses they're killing me, your not superman to keep up a disguise), no need to worry about people living there lives been training and getting Goku level strong. It's okay that everyone's moved on and is living life. They did this in the Black Goku Arc too, only Goku and Vegeta go, because only they should have. It's just back and forth hah. Anyway hopefully the tournament will showcase some cool characters, would have been cool if Beerus actually had a Manoka for Earth to anticipate too. Though I guess we'll have to anticipate New Transformations and Powers. And another hilariously incredulous and pointless exercise is complete |
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