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Power × 1.25
Topic Started: Apr 7 2017, 12:23 AM (408 Views)
DEY DID DIS 2 ME
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I've found the following interesting; if anyone else wants to discuss it, feel free:

I stumbled upon all of this some time ago while searching for the smallest large power differences in battle powers. This number, or something pretty close to it, tended to show itself in the manga (also in Daizenshuu) a lot. I'll list a few of its occurrences (maybe all, though I may miss some; I'm working mainly off of memory):

Two instances of greater (imo) significance both involve Vegeta on Namek:

Vegeta raises power for Kiwi; both the latter and Zarbon's scouters break at a little over 22 000. Kiwi is obviously dissuaded to fighting Vegeta solely based off of that reading (nevermind that Vegeta's power is actually 24 000). Just prior, Kiwi had no qualms fighting Vegeta, as the former assumed that he and the latter were equal in power (18 000).

I'll illustrate this two ways.
  1. I'll multiply 18 000 by 1.25 to get 22 500. That seems consistent with Kiwi and Zarbon's last reading.
  2. I'll divide 22 000 by 18 000 to get 1.222... Close to 1.25 (5/4 - 11/9 = 1/36). Seems consistent with 1.25 being a large power difference.

Vegeta achieves Zenkai from his loss to Zarbon; this is the second instance (which I'm more familiar with) involving Vegeta on Namek. There does not seem enough evidence for me to state that the power difference between Vegeta and Dodoria or Zarbon is large (or even significant), nor that Vegeta's advantages over Dodoria and Zarbon stem solely from power; Daizenshuu(?) states Dodoria and Zarbon's powers as 22 000 and 23 000 respectively. Regardless, Vegeta manages to engage them well enough up to Zarbon's transformation.

Barring arguing that Vegeta had a noted power difference over Zarbon or that Zarbon's transformation improved his fighting skill, Zarbon's no-contest victory over Vegeta seems solely due to a large increase in power; compare Vegeta prior to Zenkai barely scathing Zarbon to later to, after Zenkai, being able to critically damage him (albeit preemptively) before killing him outright. Complement the former point with power statements (from Vegeta before his second match with Zarbon; Clearin, during) and deduce that Vegeta's power difference from 24 000 to 30 000 (increased × 1.25) is large.

Other occurrences (which seem minor in comparison) follow:


Son Goku and Piccolo remove weighted clothing before fighting Raditz. Raditz does mention their increase in power; albeit, he (and many of Freeza's soldiers) place greater interest in battle power changing in general.

Bulma finds the Z-Warriors by reading battle powers with Raditz's scouter. Notably, the following reading differ by a factor near 1.25:
  • Mutenroshi (139) and Yamcha (177)
  • Clearin (206) and Tenshinhan (250)

The instances mentioned above and a few others (some, just for comparison) are listed below:

Posted Image
InstanceIncrease by Factor
Vegeta kills Kiwi1.3333
Kiwi and Zarbon's scouter read over 22 000 (from 18 000 to 22 000)1.2222
Vegeta attains Zenkai from Zarbon (from 24 000 to 30 000)1.2500
Son Goku's power increases from 334 to 4161.2455
Piccolo's power increases from 322 to 408: 1.2671
Alternatively, Piccolo's power may have increased from 329 to 408:1.2401
Bulma reads powers of Z-Senshi (Mutenroshi: 139; Yamcha: 177):1.2734
Bulma reads powers of Z-Senshi (Yamcha: 177; Clearin: 206):1.1638
Bulma reads powers of Z-Senshi (Clearin: 206; Tenshinhan: 250):1.2136
Bulma reads powers of Z-Senshi (Tenshinhan: 250; Piccolo: 322):1.2880
Bulma reads powers of Z-Senshi (Tenshinhan: 250; Piccolo: 329):1.3160
Son Goku fights Freeza (150 000 000, 120 000 000; Daizenshuu):1.2500
Nappa compares the power of the Saibamen to Raditz (1 200, 1 500; Daizenshuu):1.2500
Z-Senshi fight Saibamen (Yamcha: 1 480, Tenshinhan: 1 830; Daizenshuu):1.2365
Z-Senshi fight Nappa (Piccolo: 3 500, Nappa: 4 000; Daizenshuu):1.1429
Posted Image

Edited by DEY DID DIS 2 ME, Aug 1 2017, 04:51 PM.
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ryan1227
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Even a gap as low as 1.125x can lead to the weaker fighter being dominated. This can be seen when Kaioken Goku, who had a battle power above 16,000, was being dominated by Vegeta, whose battle power was barely 18,000.
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ryan1227
Apr 7 2017, 01:02 AM
Even a gap as low as 1.125x can lead to the weaker fighter being dominated. This can be seen when Kaioken Goku, who had a battle power above 16,000, was being dominated by Vegeta, whose battle power was barely 18,000.
I'm not sure if that was solely due to power. Perhaps if Son Goku could have using Kaio Ken longer, or if 16 000 was his actual power... Yeah, I don't recall any statements in particular that placed 18 000 so much higher than 16 000. Statements often help more so than the actual fights.
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Even at the Saiyan saga, a Kaioken x2 was perfectly maintainable for Goku. The only time stamina was mentioned to be a factor is when Goku went x3 and above. Beyond that, Goku is far more skilled than the likes of Dodoria and Zarbon, so there's no reason for skill to be a factor either. Also, if it's statements you're looking for, here you go:

Chapter: 229 (DBZ 35), P13.5-6, P14.2
Goku: “s***…!! His power and speed… [ ] I can’t keep up, even with the Kaio-Ken x2. [ ] I don’t care if my body breaks or I die! I’ve gotta up the Kaio-Ken to x3!!”

Chapter: P2.3-4
Goku: “I didn’t expect him to be so powerful. Not even the Kaio-Ken did much against him.”
Kaio: “Well…*ahem*…yes. Vegeta’s power was a bit of a miscalculation on my part as well. Actually, a pretty big miscalculation…”

This also makes Vegeta dominating Zarbon, who is likely above 22,000, a lot more believable.
Edited by ryan1227, Apr 7 2017, 02:04 AM.
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+ Saiyan Paladin
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Gotta side with Ryan here. Think of Vegeta @24,000 dominating normal Zarbon --above 22,000 by my numbers, 23,000 if you're using the Daiz-- it's a small difference in power, yet Zarbon gets cornered quickly and is forced to transform even though he hates it. And we can't forget that both Zarbon and Dodoria were frightened by Vegeta being at 24,000 despite the former not being that much weaker in terms of Battle Power. Dodoria is no slouch either, Freeza is under the impression that Zarbon and Dodoria together would handle Vegeta without much trouble, yet when Dodoria is on his own he runs away from Vegeta crying. Small gaps in power an make a huge difference.


EDIT: Ryan, change your avatar, you scrub.
Edited by Saiyan Paladin, Apr 7 2017, 02:22 AM.
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DEY DID DIS 2 ME
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I'm not arguing. There just isn't a definitive power statement. I like statements. Fights complement. i.e. Piccolo (weights) was actually a little stronger than Freeza until Freeza powered up again. Vegeta needed to tell us that. Otherwise, Clearin (complemented by the fight) would have us believe that they were both equal in power.
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I'll add.

About this topic:
Think: reactions to difference in power
Don't Think: battle performance.

I'll elaborate. It seems possible that Son Goku and Vegeta at that time were both equally skilled and at peak condition. Vegeta's higher power compared to Goku's Kaio Ken may have play a significant role in the former dominating the battle; that does not necessarily mean that the power difference is large. Certain power differences don't even need fighting to know their size. They're stated.

So, yes. It seems possible that power is the reason for Vegeta controlling that battle. It does not mean that the power difference was large.

That's what I'm trying to say. Hopefully it made sense.
Edited by DEY DID DIS 2 ME, Apr 7 2017, 05:36 AM.
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DEY DID DIS 2 ME
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Bump. Final consecutive post.

Think Son Goten and Trunks on Lookout in Boo arc. When they both raised to max power Son Goku could tell that Trunks was stronger than Son Goten, but it does not seem to be by an overly large amount. Although, just because it does not seem to be large does not mean it won't help in battle.

Also: http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8462701/
Edited by DEY DID DIS 2 ME, Apr 7 2017, 06:21 AM.
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