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The power of Goku with heart virus
Topic Started: Mar 30 2017, 01:10 PM (692 Views)
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What do you think? I personally dont think he was above his pre 3 years self.


As we know that Trunks didnt improve that much in his timeline. And goku was significatly above Trunks when he tested him with that sword attack



I think goku with his sickness would have had problems even with namek frieza

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Tien was impressed with Goku's power, and only Piccolo and Gohan noticed something was wrong with Goku, so I'd say he's definitely stronger than he was 3 years ago.
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Clearin
Mar 30 2017, 03:07 PM
Tien was impressed with Goku's power, and only Piccolo and Gohan noticed something was wrong with Goku, so I'd say he's definitely stronger than he was 3 years ago.
Tien was amazed. And what ? Noone say anything about that he is stronger than he was before. Just that he is strong. Piccolo and gohan said that he could be even stronger

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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Goku was definitely stronger than 3 years ago even with the heart virus. Trunks establishes that the cyborgs are so powerful that he himself stood no chance against him despite being on the relatively same playing field as Goku. This is why they spend 3 whole years training as hard as they can under the impression that even after this, it might still be a tough fight.

There's simply no way Goku's going to step into a fight with guys Trunks declares as the greatest threats of Earth and will prove a hellish challenge even after training if he's anywhere near what he was 3 years ago. It completely defeats the point of the training. Someone, like Piccolo, is going to step up and be like...

"What's up Son Goku? How do you expect to beat these cyborgs if you're this weak."

It even defeats the purpose of Piccolo's line later saying that he isn't sure if the cyborgs were as powerful as Trunks made them out to or if they as fighters themselves just got too strong. If Goku's beating No. 19 senseless with power weaker than Freeza. Piccolo would just outright say...

"You guys are weak as balls, Trunks was an idiot and I hope an evil Goku kills his mom."

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I think it's worth pointing out that what anyone sensed from Goku 3 years prior probably wasn't his full power. The biggest comment from that time was, "what ki, and he’s not even fighting,” and even when Goku and Trunks did have their little sword vs finger session, neither of them were giving it their all.

So those different levels of sensed and un-sensed power from Goku could be pretty different and intersecting a lot here, without necessarily requiring huge multi-fold improvements from him or anything. Something like...

Goku (Trunks): 180
-- Standing around: 90
-- Minimal effort: 150

Goku (sick vs 19): 200
-- Full power (unseen): 250
Edited by Kaboom, Mar 30 2017, 04:14 PM.
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EMIYA
Mar 30 2017, 03:56 PM
Goku was definitely stronger than 3 years ago even with the heart virus. Trunks establishes that the cyborgs are so powerful that he himself stood no chance against him despite being on the relatively same playing field as Goku. This is why they spend 3 whole years training as hard as they can under the impression that even after this, it might still be a tough fight.

There's simply no way Goku's going to step into a fight with guys Trunks declares as the greatest threats of Earth and will prove a hellish challenge even after training if he's anywhere near what he was 3 years ago. It completely defeats the point of the training. Someone, like Piccolo, is going to step up and be like...

"What's up Son Goku? How do you expect to beat these cyborgs if you're this weak."

It even defeats the purpose of Piccolo's line later saying that he isn't sure if the cyborgs were as powerful as Trunks made them out to or if they as fighters themselves just got too strong. If Goku's beating No. 19 senseless with power weaker than Freeza. Piccolo would just outright say...

"You guys are weak as balls, Trunks was an idiot and I hope an evil Goku kills his mom."

I wonder if goku ever noticed that he is actually weaker because of the heart virus. Otherwise he d say hey piccolo mind blow this fella up ?


Yeah your point is right but that just proves that hypothetical ssj goku with no virus is stronger than his yardrat ssj was which is okay.

Still i am not convinced about his sick ssj state being superior to heck even his namek ssj

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>"hey guiz, we got 3 years so get gud n00bs"
>"i'm placing most of my hope in you, galu"
>Goku turns Super Saiyan
>"hrrrrrrrrrrnngggg so much POWWERRRRRRRRRR"

Obvious conclusion to me is that his sick power was noticeably above his post-Yardrat power. He was expected to get a lot stronger in the 3 years, he transformed and everybody but his training partners gushed over his power, and nobody said word one about their expectations not being met or Goku being underwhelming compared to the previous get together. It's kind of like a "silent confirmation" type of thing, where nobody outright says Goku A is much stronger than Goku B, but the reactions and lack of damning counter-evidence is enough to justify it.

I will say the gap doesn't have to be monstrous, but it should be enough that Android Goku can defeat Yardrat Goku without too much difficulty.
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Pyrus
Mar 30 2017, 06:35 PM
>"hey guiz, we got 3 years so get gud n00bs"
>"i'm placing most of my hope in you, galu"
>Goku turns Super Saiyan
>"hrrrrrrrrrrnngggg so much POWWERRRRRRRRRR"

Obvious conclusion to me is that his sick power was noticeably above his post-Yardrat power. He was expected to get a lot stronger in the 3 years, he transformed and everybody but his training partners gushed over his power, and nobody said word one about their expectations not being met or Goku being underwhelming compared to the previous get together. It's kind of like a "silent confirmation" type of thing, where nobody outright says Goku A is much stronger than Goku B, but the reactions and lack of damning counter-evidence is enough to justify it.

I will say the gap doesn't have to be monstrous, but it should be enough that Android Goku can defeat Yardrat Goku without too much difficulty.
That everybody is tenshinhan


And he only said ... wow thats great . I think he would have said the samr if goku would have been only his namek self


I mean tenshinhan was an ant compared to goku. Of course he said it is awesome


Nothing implies or states other than tenshinhans " wow thats awesome" quote that sick goku is above yardrat goku

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DEY DID DIS 2 ME
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MY FACE!

This was a fun topic: http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8334811/1/

Albeit; Trunks isn't stronger than Son Goku. I was reading a bad translation then. Worth studying.
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Nothing is directly implied about Sick Goku's level and no Tien's statement doesn't point to anything. As long as he dwarfs the humans by a huge amount, it's fine.

Piccolo in the android arc is weaker than Freeza, so using process of elimination, Sick Goku is likely weaker than Freeza.
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Quote:
 
That everybody is tenshinhan

You're right, my bad. I forgot everyone else was with Yamcha.
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And he only said ... wow thats great . I think he would have said the samr if goku would have been only his namek self


I mean tenshinhan was an ant compared to goku. Of course he said it is awesome


Nothing implies or states other than tenshinhans " wow thats awesome" quote that sick goku is above yardrat goku

You can think that but it doesn't matter against what's actually shown. He's the one we have for reference of how powerful Goku is at that moment since Piccolo trained with him and wouldn't be surprised.

And even if you argued Ten's statements seem to be contradictory, his statement here is supposed to imply Goku is the strongest around.
Edited by Pyrus, Mar 30 2017, 08:55 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

If Goku is weaker than he was 3 years ago much more weaker than he was on Namek...why does nobody say anything.

Sounds to me like Piccolo should step in and take the fight or grab Goku and everyone and make a strategic retreat.

Even upon Goku's transformation, Piccolo doesn't instantly call Goku's lack of power out. He just puts on a wondering thought. Where as Tenshinhan expresses admiration for Goku's power, Piccolo is left wondering if this really is Goku's full power. He notices that something is off about Goku but it's not until the fight goes on with the android that he starts really expanding on the problem.

That Goku, despite whooping the cyborg has been in a miserable condition. He talks to Gohan and they both see that Goku should be able to produce more power than this. Instead he's clearly giving it his all but has been suffering and even probably getting slowly weaker throughout the fight.
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Pyrus
Mar 30 2017, 08:48 PM
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That everybody is tenshinhan

You're right, my bad. I forgot everyone else was with Yamcha.
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And he only said ... wow thats great . I think he would have said the samr if goku would have been only his namek self


I mean tenshinhan was an ant compared to goku. Of course he said it is awesome


Nothing implies or states other than tenshinhans " wow thats awesome" quote that sick goku is above yardrat goku

You can think that but it doesn't matter against what's actually shown. He's the one we have for reference of how powerful Goku is at that moment since Piccolo trained with him and wouldn't be surprised.

And even if you argued Ten's statements seem to be contradictory, his statement here is supposed to imply Goku is the strongest around.
Yeah goku even with heart virus was stronger than Piccolo who was suppressed at that time. Yeah

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Chapter 340 (DBZ 146), P13.1-2
Tenshinhan: “Wh-what a ki! Amazing…! S-so this is Goku as a Super Saiyan…?!”
Piccolo: “…”


Tenshinhan apparently never felt Goku's power prior to this moment, and so he's no indication as to whether he's stronger or weaker than he was when Trunks showed up last.

Given the cap the future androids present, it's entirely possible #19 and #20 aren't higher than Freeza was, and therefore maybe Goku himself is weaker than or around his Yardrat self.
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Geralt of Rivia
Mar 31 2017, 10:44 AM
Pyrus
Mar 30 2017, 08:48 PM
Quote:
 
That everybody is tenshinhan

You're right, my bad. I forgot everyone else was with Yamcha.
Quote:
 
And he only said ... wow thats great . I think he would have said the samr if goku would have been only his namek self


I mean tenshinhan was an ant compared to goku. Of course he said it is awesome


Nothing implies or states other than tenshinhans " wow thats awesome" quote that sick goku is above yardrat goku

You can think that but it doesn't matter against what's actually shown. He's the one we have for reference of how powerful Goku is at that moment since Piccolo trained with him and wouldn't be surprised.

And even if you argued Ten's statements seem to be contradictory, his statement here is supposed to imply Goku is the strongest around.
Yeah goku even with heart virus was stronger than Piccolo who was suppressed at that time. Yeah
What was that even on response to?
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