How will the robotic economy affect global employment?

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How will the robotic economy affect global employment?
Tweet Topic Started: Mar 15 2017, 02:18 AM (1,541 Views)
* Yu Narukami	Mar 15 2017, 06:23 PM Post #16
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	SSJSC Mar 15 2017, 06:04 PM Mitas Mar 15 2017, 05:55 PM SSJSC Mar 15 2017, 04:48 PM Mitas Mar 15 2017, 03:22 PM Sure, there most likely aren't enough jobs to get every person employed, but it's not as big a number as you make it out to be.. There are plenty of jobs available, it's just whether people are willing to do them. All these people with degrees and work experience looking for work are probably not applying for jobs at the 'bottom' of the employment ladder (I hesitate to use that phrase because I don't believe those jobs should be looked down on; somebody has to do them). The problem is that nobody is brought up thinking 'I'm going to work as a cleaner, or for a fast food company, or as a shop assistant, or in a factory etc. They aim 'higher', but there aren't enough of those 'higher' jobs to meet the number of people aspiring to obtain them. Then, they either get depressed because they have to 'settle' for a job they see as beneath them, or they don't apply for them in the first place and then complain that there aren't enough jobs. What I was talking about is that one day there will literally not be enough jobs (not just not enough jobs that are 'appealing'). All shops will be manned by robots, all factories, cleaning services, data entry, customer service. Maybe not in our lifetime, but probably close to it. Where do you want a bunch of 20 year olds to settle at then? If they get low level and low pay jobs, they'll never move out of their home and never will be able to have a career. Those jobs should be given to someone who needs to start working and understand basic work ethics. I had a low level, low pay job and moved out of home and I know plenty of people who can say the same thing, so I don't really know what you mean. In terms of 'having a career', that's subjective. We're led to believe that it means having something 'worthwhile' and/or that makes you a lot of money, but who is to say what's more 'worthwhile'? These jobs still need doing just as much as any other job. Like I said: there just aren't enough supposedly 'worthwhile' jobs out there to make everyone happy with where they end up in the workplace. Also, yes, in theory, 'menial' jobs should be given to those who are just starting out in employment, or students, or part-time workers etc, but in pratice it's not that easy. Where are these people supposed to go when they leave the part of their life where you say it's acceptable for them to have these jobs? You said it yourself: there are many, many people out there struggling to find a job that matches their qualifications. Again, there just aren't enough 'higher level' positions out there for the people who want to fill them. The math just doesn't add up, so there will always be people out there stuck in jobs they feel are beneath them. You can't do much with $10-15 per hour. Moving out is a high risk because renting or purchasing homes are expensive. Low jobs don't really go over $10/hr. Higher level jobs pay more, thus people need BETTER jobs to make a living. As Mitas was saying though, the numbers just aren't there when it comes to those better jobs. The lower-paying jobs are necessities and a lot of the higher-paying jobs are quite specialised, where somebody would have to have had a clear idea of what they want to do and chosen to study in those areas years in advance. Another solution, of course, is increasing the minimum wage so those 'menial' jobs seem more worthwhile to a lot of people.



+ Steve	Mar 15 2017, 10:20 PM Post #17
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Yeah a universal living wage seems the most appropriate for this, if you want to work you'll likely have to be exceptional or be willing to do something few others will. I heard that Bill Gates said robots should be taxed the same as humans and I think that's a great idea, that would certainly be enough to facilitate a universal wage. A robot is much cheaper to a company than hiring a human worker who needs a yearly salary, insurance, healthcare, training etc etc Pretty dumb that huge corporations that already dodge taxes and rake in money should be able to just use cheap robots instead of people and be even more fantastically rich while the useless humans who aren't rich suffer. I'm sure corporations will do everything in their power to not allow a robot tax but I think it's what should happen. High time we forced them to do more than line their own pockets, contribute to all mankind. Of course being employed in that world will be insanely difficult but new opportunities would arise, surely. Priorities will just have to shift. You wouldn't have to be working to enjoy life. If you want a Maserati and a Sexatron 3500 you'll need to work hard to get a job and pay for one but...not like everyone needs those to be happy, only in the current world where society has everyone obsessed with success, or rather the current idea of what success is. I see it as a good world in general, it'd give people more time to help each other. With less people gunning to be managers, factory workers, mechanics etc etc more people could help the elderly, get in to health care, become psychologists or teachers.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


SSJSC	Mar 16 2017, 06:36 AM Post #18
Posts: 1,024 Group: Member Member #10,761 Joined: January 23, 2014	So Steve, you mind telling us more about how you see the future of living and employment? Is everyone going to be teachers and elderly caretakers or not quite?



+ Steve	Mar 16 2017, 09:20 PM Post #19
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	SSJSC Mar 16 2017, 06:36 AM So Steve, you mind telling us more about how you see the future of living and employment? Is everyone going to be teachers and elderly caretakers or not quite? Not everyone of course but everyone should be pretty well off even without a job and then people who are willing to put the effort in and actually get a job will be even more rewarded. If every other job that isn't essential for a human was taken up by a robot then the average wage could be much higher so even being a cleaner would be good. You wouldn't have to be what we consider a hot shot now to get good money. Unless jobs had ridiculously high tax rates but that would be the dumbest thing. With the lack of work people would probably get lazier so millions of personal trainer jobs right there I doubt a robot could really fill a role like that which requires encouragement and understanding people. There's many things in which humans would be irreplaceable and they would be made more common, accessible and desirable.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


SSJSC	Mar 23 2017, 12:35 AM Post #20
Posts: 1,024 Group: Member Member #10,761 Joined: January 23, 2014	I hate the fact that there are people who will criticize you for not having a job or career when they don't even know that it's not your fault if you can't get a job. Critics must think finding a job is so easy out there, and the government doesn't do a single damn thing about helping people get jobs and make money while effortlessly putting every dime they have into Hawaiian vacations and incarcerating people for every crime. When is the next time the notorious unemployment era will end and we're all going to be working anyways?



* Mitas	Mar 23 2017, 01:35 PM Post #21
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	SSJSC Mar 23 2017, 12:35 AM When is the next time the notorious unemployment era will end and we're all going to be working anyways? Unemployment rate is actually currently pretty low in both the US and the UK, both around 5%. I don't see it getting much lower than that to be honest.
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


SSJSC	Mar 24 2017, 05:45 AM Post #22
Posts: 1,024 Group: Member Member #10,761 Joined: January 23, 2014	Mitas Mar 23 2017, 01:35 PM SSJSC Mar 23 2017, 12:35 AM When is the next time the notorious unemployment era will end and we're all going to be working anyways? Unemployment rate is actually currently pretty low in both the US and the UK, both around 5%. I don't see it getting much lower than that to be honest. What are those 5% of the people going to do then if they can't get a job? Are they suppose to go kill themselves or something? It's totally unacceptable for anyone to not be employed. Edited by SSJSC, Mar 24 2017, 05:46 AM.



Daemon Keido	Mar 24 2017, 06:05 AM Post #23
Warmaster of Chaos Posts: 3,915 Group: RP Moderator Member #6,491 Joined: July 16, 2011 Gender Male Country Canada Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, of course Favourite Manga Currently Toriko	SSJSC Mar 24 2017, 05:45 AM Mitas Mar 23 2017, 01:35 PM SSJSC Mar 23 2017, 12:35 AM When is the next time the notorious unemployment era will end and we're all going to be working anyways? Unemployment rate is actually currently pretty low in both the US and the UK, both around 5%. I don't see it getting much lower than that to be honest. What are those 5% of the people going to do then if they can't get a job? Are they suppose to go kill themselves or something? It's totally unacceptable for anyone to not be employed. Let's make one thing clear: There is no shortage of jobs. There are many jobs that 5% could take. The issue at hand is that these jobs are not taken either due to being unable to give a living wage and the person holding out for a better paying job, the job is considered beneath the one searching for a job, or a combination of the two. Speaking broadly, at least.
	A Shadow is merely Darkness in the presence of Light Thanks Kid Buu for this awesome sig! The Emperor Protects


SSJSC	Mar 24 2017, 07:21 AM Post #24
Posts: 1,024 Group: Member Member #10,761 Joined: January 23, 2014	Daemon Keido Mar 24 2017, 06:05 AM SSJSC Mar 24 2017, 05:45 AM Mitas Mar 23 2017, 01:35 PM SSJSC Mar 23 2017, 12:35 AM When is the next time the notorious unemployment era will end and we're all going to be working anyways? Unemployment rate is actually currently pretty low in both the US and the UK, both around 5%. I don't see it getting much lower than that to be honest. What are those 5% of the people going to do then if they can't get a job? Are they suppose to go kill themselves or something? It's totally unacceptable for anyone to not be employed. Let's make one thing clear: There is no shortage of jobs. There are many jobs that 5% could take. The issue at hand is that these jobs are not taken either due to being unable to give a living wage and the person holding out for a better paying job, the job is considered beneath the one searching for a job, or a combination of the two. Speaking broadly, at least. To be very honest with you, that isn't the main or whole reason. That's ONE of the reasons. Other common reasons are that people are lacking the skills/qualifications, which employers are looking for or the role just doesn't suit the person's personality. I often avoid applying for positions that involve sitting down all day because I know I'm not that type of person. Why won't employers just hire and train people instead? Because they CAN'T afford to and there are hundreds of people applying for one spot these days. What people need to do is create MORE jobs so they can bring the unemployment percentage rate down to 0. I don't want to be living with my relatives or sleeping at a homeless shelter forever. The robots are just going to make things worse. They're going to take away even more jobs soon. Edited by SSJSC, Mar 24 2017, 07:23 AM.



* Yu Narukami	Mar 24 2017, 10:56 AM Post #25
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	You'll never get unemployment down to zero, and even if you do, it'll be off the back of zero hour contracts, which skew the statistics. Automation is a serious danger though. It shouldn't be, because we should have enough sense to set up a system that takes it into account and provides everyone with a basic living income, but as you can tell, that really isn't the case.



* Mitas	Mar 24 2017, 11:04 AM Post #26
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	Yeah, zero hour and part-time probably make up a big chunk of the current employment figures anyway. Part time contracts (under 30 hours a week) make up 25% of the workforce in the UK. Not sure about zero hours. Edit: But SSJSC, you seem to be making a massive deal about working and money. Life is more than that. Like I said, I worked 20 hours a week on average wages and was able to rent a place with a friend, pay my bills, and have money left to spend on extras. Life is about more than your career and your bank balance. Edited by Mitas, Mar 24 2017, 11:06 AM.
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


SSJSC	Mar 24 2017, 02:15 PM Post #27
Posts: 1,024 Group: Member Member #10,761 Joined: January 23, 2014	Nagito Komaeda Mar 24 2017, 10:56 AM You'll never get unemployment down to zero, and even if you do, it'll be off the back of zero hour contracts, which skew the statistics. You're going to have to elaborate on that. Are you saying that there will always be people who aren't working?



* Mitas	Mar 24 2017, 02:40 PM Post #28
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	Why does he have to elaborate? You obviously understood what he meant because that's exactly what he's saying: there will always be a certain level of unemployment. And it's only going to increase as the decades pass and more jobs are made obsolete by advances in robotics and AI.
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


SSJSC	Mar 24 2017, 03:54 PM Post #29
Posts: 1,024 Group: Member Member #10,761 Joined: January 23, 2014	Mitas Mar 24 2017, 02:40 PM Why does he have to elaborate? You obviously understood what he meant because that's exactly what he's saying: there will always be a certain level of unemployment. And it's only going to increase as the decades pass and more jobs are made obsolete by advances in robotics and AI. He said if you got rid of unemployment, it'll be zero hour contracts, which skew the statistics. To me, it was unclear because it seems like he came up with a reason not to get rid of unemployment. So I'm asking him cordially to please clarify that a little further. And please disregard from making framed comments in the thread when I didn't ask you, thanks.



* Yu Narukami	Mar 24 2017, 05:59 PM Post #30
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	SSJSC Mar 24 2017, 03:54 PM Mitas Mar 24 2017, 02:40 PM Why does he have to elaborate? You obviously understood what he meant because that's exactly what he's saying: there will always be a certain level of unemployment. And it's only going to increase as the decades pass and more jobs are made obsolete by advances in robotics and AI. He said if you got rid of unemployment, it'll be zero hour contracts, which skew the statistics. To me, it was unclear because it seems like he came up with a reason not to get rid of unemployment. So I'm asking him cordially to please clarify that a little further. And please disregard from making framed comments in the thread when I didn't ask you, thanks. It's not that I don't want to get rid of unemployment, it's just that it's literally impossible. Zero-hour contracts are contracts where the employer isn't obligated to give you any working hours. Essentially, you could be on a zero-hour contract and get no hours at all. You'd still legally be employed, but you wouldn't be working. I mean, heck, with unemployment in general, it'd get to the point where you'd have to artificially inflate different sectors in order to create the jobs necessary to employ everyone.



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