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How will the robotic economy affect global employment?
Topic Started: Mar 15 2017, 02:18 AM (1,265 Views)
SSJSC
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Now that robots are starting to take over our jobs, leading to a greater number of people unemployed, how do you envision the future now? Will the government find a way to get us different jobs or will we have free food and free bills? What do you think will happen to us once robots take over the industry?
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Daemon Keido
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Well offhand, this will make an uptick in skilled workers able to maintain the robotic workforce. No matter how well made the machine, it will ALWAYS need some gentle tweaking by human hands to continue to work.

The robots won't take over all industry but it definitely will annihilate the jobs dedicated to repetitive development like cars, phones and other assembly line goods.

Also, the government is in no real position to force job creation, all they can do is create an environment conducive to job growth. But I can promise you that robot army of workers or not, you aren't getting free crap anytime soon.
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Daemon Keido
Mar 15 2017, 02:32 AM
Well offhand, this will make an uptick in skilled workers able to maintain the robotic workforce. No matter how well made the machine, it will ALWAYS need some gentle tweaking by human hands to continue to work.

The robots won't take over all industry but it definitely will annihilate the jobs dedicated to repetitive development like cars, phones and other assembly line goods.

Also, the government is in no real position to force job creation, all they can do is create an environment conducive to job growth. But I can promise you that robot army of workers or not, you aren't getting free crap anytime soon.
Explain to me how is everyone going to be employed when HR is very choosy with one person out of other 50 people applying for a position? There are people out there who have college degrees and good amount of work experience and still can't get full time jobs to move out of their parents' home. How is this robotic economy ever going to change that now... I beg to question.
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Tim
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We will need to move towards a basic wage for everyone.

By default everyone will need to get a certain level of income in order to live, and then if you do extra work it is more of a bonus.

Bit by bit we will need to move away from an employment-based society as automation will eventually take over the vast majority of work.
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Tinny
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I made a thread on this last year, I'll link a vid from it and copy some of my thoughts there.

First an odd request. Trust me, this'll make sense, you can probably see where I'm going but I'm doing it anyway.



We may one day go the way of the horse, being pretty much unemployable through no fault of their own. There's no guarantee that we'll get new jobs in enough numbers to replace the jobs lost by robots doing them cheaper and better, especially since we aren't prepared and it's happening right now. The transportation industry has self driving cars as a reality that are perfectly able to drive within traffic, almost objectively if not outright better than our own human drivers. In the future, perhaps even the very near future we could see most transportation drivers losing their job to completely automated vehicles that can quite frankly do their job better with far less mistakes, by the coast and through the cities. That's three million people becoming irrelevant in the future, and considering history, it's almost certain that politics and unions will not stop this change in society.

We even have robots with the ability to observe and learn to do certain tasks, simply look at the stock market with how much robots have learned. These jobs are eventually on the way out as well. They can read through a million emails with more accuracy than us.

Blue collar, white collar, and professional jobs are pretty much on the way out, at different rates but at some point in the future, we humans will be irrelevant, and considering that we are developing a robot to outright replicate the human brain, even those may leave us, though granted this is much less likely, but the fact remains that even this already comparatively small field may end up with us competing with bots. Which brings me back to the second video I posted. That was from Emily Howell, Emily is not a human. Emily is a robot designed to make music from a variety of sources.

Ultimately, there is not a single job in the modem economy that will avoid being one day, some time in the future, replaced.

Here's a vid on the subject of which I got many of these ideas from.


We will need to adapt to this, in some way, some how. In the meantime, many will lose their jobs and livelihoods, that's more or less inevitable. Hopefully a generation doesn't end up as the horse to robotics' car.
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Tinny
Mar 15 2017, 03:23 AM
I made a thread on this last year, I'll link a vid from it and copy some of my thoughts there.

First an odd request. Trust me, this'll make sense, you can probably see where I'm going but I'm doing it anyway.



We may one day go the way of the horse, being pretty much unemployable through no fault of their own. There's no guarantee that we'll get new jobs in enough numbers to replace the jobs lost by robots doing them cheaper and better, especially since we aren't prepared and it's happening right now. The transportation industry has self driving cars as a reality that are perfectly able to drive within traffic, almost objectively if not outright better than our own human drivers. In the future, perhaps even the very near future we could see most transportation drivers losing their job to completely automated vehicles that can quite frankly do their job better with far less mistakes, by the coast and through the cities. That's three million people becoming irrelevant in the future, and considering history, it's almost certain that politics and unions will not stop this change in society.

We even have robots with the ability to observe and learn to do certain tasks, simply look at the stock market with how much robots have learned. These jobs are eventually on the way out as well. They can read through a million emails with more accuracy than us.

Blue collar, white collar, and professional jobs are pretty much on the way out, at different rates but at some point in the future, we humans will be irrelevant, and considering that we are developing a robot to outright replicate the human brain, even those may leave us, though granted this is much less likely, but the fact remains that even this already comparatively small field may end up with us competing with bots. Which brings me back to the second video I posted. That was from Emily Howell, Emily is not a human. Emily is a robot designed to make music from a variety of sources.

Ultimately, there is not a single job in the modem economy that will avoid being one day, some time in the future, replaced.

Here's a vid on the subject of which I got many of these ideas from.


We will need to adapt to this, in some way, some how. In the meantime, many will lose their jobs and livelihoods, that's more or less inevitable. Hopefully a generation doesn't end up as the horse to robotics' car.
Care to explain to me how we will move out of our parents' home and become independent financially in the future? We obviously can't pay off $3000 every month and it's going to put a lot of the apartment or homeowners out of business. So with robots taking over the industry, I still beg to question as to how we will be able to live on our own without working to make money. I want to work right now because I don't want to keep depending on people to feed me, watch me, or even babysit me. I'm at the age where I'm suppose to have a full time job and move out already, but I can't. Likewise, I definitely do not lack experience or education to work. This most definitely has to do with scarcity of jobs. I can communicate with people and also present myself neatly the first time even though it's almost impossible to get selected for a position.
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Daemon Keido
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You are assuming that when robotic workforces expand that the world at large will.be the same. This is not the case. By the time robotic workforces become the working majority, the landscape of human careers will also be drastically different.

You are spending too much time focused on how you can eke out a life now with this on the horizon instead of projecting how your life will be lived differently to begin with.
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* Mitas
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Like Tim said, the logical step would be for some sort of Universal Living Allowance where everybody gets a basic level of income from the government. The interesting thing with that would be how much. If/when we reach a time in society where a certain level of unemployment is unavoidable, those people shouldn't be punished for something out of their control and forced to subside on an allowance that only allows them to scrape by, but obviously it can't be high enough that it puts people off working the remaining job.

Also, I won't go too much into it because I discussed it in the last topic, but I disagree that jobs in the entertainment, artistic, and sports industries are at risk. Humans will always gravitate towards the accomplishments of other humans; very few people are going to be interested in something that is designed to be perfect at something, unless it's to do with the human behind the creation.
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"Next time?"
"Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."
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SSJSC
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Mitas
Mar 15 2017, 08:55 AM
Like Tim said, the logical step would be for some sort of Universal Living Allowance where everybody gets a basic level of income from the government. The interesting thing with that would be how much. If/when we reach a time in society where a certain level of unemployment is unavoidable, those people shouldn't be punished for something out of their control and forced to subside on an allowance that only allows them to scrape by, but obviously it can't be high enough that it puts people off working the remaining job.

Also, I won't go too much into it because I discussed it in the last topic, but I disagree that jobs in the entertainment, artistic, and sports industries are at risk. Humans will always gravitate towards the accomplishments of other humans; very few people are going to be interested in something that is designed to be perfect at something, unless it's to do with the human behind the creation.
We are already at the point where we're unemployed and it's out of our control to change that around. Don't see you see that there are so many people with education and work experience and still can't get a job/career started?
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* Mitas
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Sure, there most likely aren't enough jobs to get every person employed, but it's not as big a number as you make it out to be.. There are plenty of jobs available, it's just whether people are willing to do them. All these people with degrees and work experience looking for work are probably not applying for jobs at the 'bottom' of the employment ladder (I hesitate to use that phrase because I don't believe those jobs should be looked down on; somebody has to do them). The problem is that nobody is brought up thinking 'I'm going to work as a cleaner, or for a fast food company, or as a shop assistant, or in a factory etc. They aim 'higher', but there aren't enough of those 'higher' jobs to meet the number of people aspiring to obtain them. Then, they either get depressed because they have to 'settle' for a job they see as beneath them, or they don't apply for them in the first place and then complain that there aren't enough jobs.

What I was talking about is that one day there will literally not be enough jobs (not just not enough jobs that are 'appealing'). All shops will be manned by robots, all factories, cleaning services, data entry, customer service. Maybe not in our lifetime, but probably close to it.
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"Then you've got the chance to do better next time."
"Next time?"
"Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."
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Tinny
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SSJSC
Mar 15 2017, 03:34 AM
Tinny
Mar 15 2017, 03:23 AM
I made a thread on this last year, I'll link a vid from it and copy some of my thoughts there.

First an odd request. Trust me, this'll make sense, you can probably see where I'm going but I'm doing it anyway.



We may one day go the way of the horse, being pretty much unemployable through no fault of their own. There's no guarantee that we'll get new jobs in enough numbers to replace the jobs lost by robots doing them cheaper and better, especially since we aren't prepared and it's happening right now. The transportation industry has self driving cars as a reality that are perfectly able to drive within traffic, almost objectively if not outright better than our own human drivers. In the future, perhaps even the very near future we could see most transportation drivers losing their job to completely automated vehicles that can quite frankly do their job better with far less mistakes, by the coast and through the cities. That's three million people becoming irrelevant in the future, and considering history, it's almost certain that politics and unions will not stop this change in society.

We even have robots with the ability to observe and learn to do certain tasks, simply look at the stock market with how much robots have learned. These jobs are eventually on the way out as well. They can read through a million emails with more accuracy than us.

Blue collar, white collar, and professional jobs are pretty much on the way out, at different rates but at some point in the future, we humans will be irrelevant, and considering that we are developing a robot to outright replicate the human brain, even those may leave us, though granted this is much less likely, but the fact remains that even this already comparatively small field may end up with us competing with bots. Which brings me back to the second video I posted. That was from Emily Howell, Emily is not a human. Emily is a robot designed to make music from a variety of sources.

Ultimately, there is not a single job in the modem economy that will avoid being one day, some time in the future, replaced.

Here's a vid on the subject of which I got many of these ideas from.


We will need to adapt to this, in some way, some how. In the meantime, many will lose their jobs and livelihoods, that's more or less inevitable. Hopefully a generation doesn't end up as the horse to robotics' car.
Care to explain to me how we will move out of our parents' home and become independent financially in the future? We obviously can't pay off $3000 every month and it's going to put a lot of the apartment or homeowners out of business. So with robots taking over the industry, I still beg to question as to how we will be able to live on our own without working to make money. I want to work right now because I don't want to keep depending on people to feed me, watch me, or even babysit me. I'm at the age where I'm suppose to have a full time job and move out already, but I can't. Likewise, I definitely do not lack experience or education to work. This most definitely has to do with scarcity of jobs. I can communicate with people and also present myself neatly the first time even though it's almost impossible to get selected for a position.
You clearly haven't read my post and are under the impression I gave what I thought was a nice and tidy solution.

I did not. I compared us to the horse, the unemployable horse that remains unemployable no matter what we do. Now at some point we'll likely transition into some way to pay people for being alive at all, but in the inbetween period you're referring to, we're gonna see unemployment that makes the Great Depression look like a slight dip in our economy. We're liable to lose around 45% of the workforce, almost double that of our great depression, and the period between us realizing we are unemployable and us figuring out a solution to it is not going to be pretty and may lead to all manner of riots, maybe even another attempt at Ludd's rebellion, likely with similar results. In the long run we'll be fine, but if you're talking about if you'll be able to keep your job, it's very likely you will lose your job and be unemployed, not because you're lazy, but because you're genuinly unemployable through no fault of your own.

Employment is going down because of the robots. The automation. Governments will have to find some solution to this as well, or else they'll have to deal with unrest, riots, and possible rebellion.

We will live in interesting times to say the least, and if you know what that quote really means, you know that's a bad thing.
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Mitas
Mar 15 2017, 03:22 PM
Sure, there most likely aren't enough jobs to get every person employed, but it's not as big a number as you make it out to be.. There are plenty of jobs available, it's just whether people are willing to do them. All these people with degrees and work experience looking for work are probably not applying for jobs at the 'bottom' of the employment ladder (I hesitate to use that phrase because I don't believe those jobs should be looked down on; somebody has to do them). The problem is that nobody is brought up thinking 'I'm going to work as a cleaner, or for a fast food company, or as a shop assistant, or in a factory etc. They aim 'higher', but there aren't enough of those 'higher' jobs to meet the number of people aspiring to obtain them. Then, they either get depressed because they have to 'settle' for a job they see as beneath them, or they don't apply for them in the first place and then complain that there aren't enough jobs.

What I was talking about is that one day there will literally not be enough jobs (not just not enough jobs that are 'appealing'). All shops will be manned by robots, all factories, cleaning services, data entry, customer service. Maybe not in our lifetime, but probably close to it.
Where do you want a bunch of 20 year olds to settle at then? If they get low level and low pay jobs, they'll never move out of their home and never will be able to have a career. Those jobs should be given to someone who needs to start working and understand basic work ethics.

tinny
 
You clearly haven't read my post and are under the impression I gave what I thought was a nice and tidy solution.

I did not. I compared us to the horse, the unemployable horse that remains unemployable no matter what we do. Now at some point we'll likely transition into some way to pay people for being alive at all, but in the inbetween period you're referring to, we're gonna see unemployment that makes the Great Depression look like a slight dip in our economy. We're liable to lose around 45% of the workforce, almost double that of our great depression, and the period between us realizing we are unemployable and us figuring out a solution to it is not going to be pretty and may lead to all manner of riots, maybe even another attempt at Ludd's rebellion, likely with similar results. In the long run we'll be fine, but if you're talking about if you'll be able to keep your job, it's very likely you will lose your job and be unemployed, not because you're lazy, but because you're genuinly unemployable through no fault of your own.

Employment is going down because of the robots. The automation. Governments will have to find some solution to this as well, or else they'll have to deal with unrest, riots, and possible rebellion.

We will live in interesting times to say the least, and if you know what that quote really means, you know that's a bad thing.


So do you mean that young people will have an even harder time moving out of their homes and being successful financially in the future?
Edited by SSJSC, Mar 15 2017, 04:54 PM.
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Tinny
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SSJSC
Mar 15 2017, 04:48 PM
So do you mean that young people will have an even harder time moving out of their homes and being successful financially in the future?
How many jobs do you see horses doing these days? How many working horses are there in the United States? Yes, it will be harder as time goes on and depending on the job you may find yourself unemployable outside of say, a new deal situation which are basically labor for random projects and money for living, even then I can see programs there being declared unconstitutional. And this is more or less inevitable that we will lose these jobs to machines, simply because they're so much more efficient.
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* Mitas
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SSJSC
Mar 15 2017, 04:48 PM
Mitas
Mar 15 2017, 03:22 PM
Sure, there most likely aren't enough jobs to get every person employed, but it's not as big a number as you make it out to be.. There are plenty of jobs available, it's just whether people are willing to do them. All these people with degrees and work experience looking for work are probably not applying for jobs at the 'bottom' of the employment ladder (I hesitate to use that phrase because I don't believe those jobs should be looked down on; somebody has to do them). The problem is that nobody is brought up thinking 'I'm going to work as a cleaner, or for a fast food company, or as a shop assistant, or in a factory etc. They aim 'higher', but there aren't enough of those 'higher' jobs to meet the number of people aspiring to obtain them. Then, they either get depressed because they have to 'settle' for a job they see as beneath them, or they don't apply for them in the first place and then complain that there aren't enough jobs.

What I was talking about is that one day there will literally not be enough jobs (not just not enough jobs that are 'appealing'). All shops will be manned by robots, all factories, cleaning services, data entry, customer service. Maybe not in our lifetime, but probably close to it.
Where do you want a bunch of 20 year olds to settle at then? If they get low level and low pay jobs, they'll never move out of their home and never will be able to have a career. Those jobs should be given to someone who needs to start working and understand basic work ethics.
I had a low level, low pay job and moved out of home and I know plenty of people who can say the same thing, so I don't really know what you mean. In terms of 'having a career', that's subjective. We're led to believe that it means having something 'worthwhile' and/or that makes you a lot of money, but who is to say what's more 'worthwhile'? These jobs still need doing just as much as any other job. Like I said: there just aren't enough supposedly 'worthwhile' jobs out there to make everyone happy with where they end up in the workplace.

Also, yes, in theory, 'menial' jobs should be given to those who are just starting out in employment, or students, or part-time workers etc, but in pratice it's not that easy. Where are these people supposed to go when they leave the part of their life where you say it's acceptable for them to have these jobs? You said it yourself: there are many, many people out there struggling to find a job that matches their qualifications. Again, there just aren't enough 'higher level' positions out there for the people who want to fill them. The math just doesn't add up, so there will always be people out there stuck in jobs they feel are beneath them.
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"Next time?"
"Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."
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Mitas
Mar 15 2017, 05:55 PM
SSJSC
Mar 15 2017, 04:48 PM
Mitas
Mar 15 2017, 03:22 PM
Sure, there most likely aren't enough jobs to get every person employed, but it's not as big a number as you make it out to be.. There are plenty of jobs available, it's just whether people are willing to do them. All these people with degrees and work experience looking for work are probably not applying for jobs at the 'bottom' of the employment ladder (I hesitate to use that phrase because I don't believe those jobs should be looked down on; somebody has to do them). The problem is that nobody is brought up thinking 'I'm going to work as a cleaner, or for a fast food company, or as a shop assistant, or in a factory etc. They aim 'higher', but there aren't enough of those 'higher' jobs to meet the number of people aspiring to obtain them. Then, they either get depressed because they have to 'settle' for a job they see as beneath them, or they don't apply for them in the first place and then complain that there aren't enough jobs.

What I was talking about is that one day there will literally not be enough jobs (not just not enough jobs that are 'appealing'). All shops will be manned by robots, all factories, cleaning services, data entry, customer service. Maybe not in our lifetime, but probably close to it.
Where do you want a bunch of 20 year olds to settle at then? If they get low level and low pay jobs, they'll never move out of their home and never will be able to have a career. Those jobs should be given to someone who needs to start working and understand basic work ethics.
I had a low level, low pay job and moved out of home and I know plenty of people who can say the same thing, so I don't really know what you mean. In terms of 'having a career', that's subjective. We're led to believe that it means having something 'worthwhile' and/or that makes you a lot of money, but who is to say what's more 'worthwhile'? These jobs still need doing just as much as any other job. Like I said: there just aren't enough supposedly 'worthwhile' jobs out there to make everyone happy with where they end up in the workplace.

Also, yes, in theory, 'menial' jobs should be given to those who are just starting out in employment, or students, or part-time workers etc, but in pratice it's not that easy. Where are these people supposed to go when they leave the part of their life where you say it's acceptable for them to have these jobs? You said it yourself: there are many, many people out there struggling to find a job that matches their qualifications. Again, there just aren't enough 'higher level' positions out there for the people who want to fill them. The math just doesn't add up, so there will always be people out there stuck in jobs they feel are beneath them.
You can't do much with $10-15 per hour. Moving out is a high risk because renting or purchasing homes are expensive. Low jobs don't really go over $10/hr. Higher level jobs pay more, thus people need BETTER jobs to make a living.
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