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Zelda question
Topic Started: Mar 10 2017, 03:02 AM (336 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96
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Remember how the Hero's Shade in twilight princess was the hero of time and how he was sad he wasn't remembered as a hero and so he wanted to leave his mark by teaching the current link?

I came across this on Reddit and I think they have a good point. After this there's a tl;dr version if you want

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I know that it has been "officialy stated" that Hero's shade from Twillight Princess is the Hero of Time from Ocarina of Time, because as Hyrule Historia puts it:

"Ever since returning to the Child Era, the swordsman has lamented the fact that he was not remembered as a hero. This is the reason he passes down the proof of his courage and his secret techniques to the Link of this era, addressing him as "son"." (Hyrule Historia (Dark Horse Books), pg. 118)

This however makes no sense for the following reason: At the start of Majoras Mask, the opening says:

"In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family that tells of a boy... A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from the land that had made him a legend... Done with the battles he once waged across time, he embarked on a journey. A secret and personal journey... A journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend... A friend with whom he parted ways when he finally fulfilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends..."

So obviously it makes Zero sense for Link to be cursed for this reason, since it is CLEARLY stated that he became a famous legend!


https://www.reddit.com/r/zeldaconspiracies/comments/3qfsvo/the_heros_shade_cannot_be_the_hero_of_time/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list

Tl; dr

In majoras mask, which is in the same timeline as twilight princess, it's said that he's a famous hero

Did twilight princess retcon it that? Any theories?
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Mar 10 2017, 03:03 AM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

From what I can boil it down to.

The Heroes Shade (AKA OOT Link) is basically the ideology of OOT Link that got passed down the Child Era, where Link has returned to the past and continues his journeys from there. In the end, two sides of history gets made. One of them is where OOT Link basically stops Ganondorf early on and prevents him from taking over Hyrule.

The problem here is that, for Link, he had to go through a lot just to do this. The people of the Child Era, those that lead into Twilight Princess and what not, don't realize that a lot went into stopping Ganondorf. He wasn't just some random thief that got caught early and the Heroes Shade of this timeline is saddened by the fact that his ordeals in saving Hyrule early aren't recognized.

This is the opposite of the Adult timeline where Hyrule was taken over and thus everyone remembers and acknowledges Link as the heroe he was.

In simple terms, The Hero Shade is the Link that did all the trouble to stop Ganondorf but because he went up to stop him early, his actions aren't perceived as heroic since Ganodnorf didn't screw up the timeline at this point. Instead he's basically captured, sentenced to execution which leads to the whole point with the sages and Zant.
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Emmeth
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As far as I can remember, there's three possible timelines that come from Ocarina of Time; The one where Link goes to infamy and is revered by his people, the one where Link goes back to being a child but doesn't travel with Epona to find Termina and the one where he does. This again creates two other timelines; Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. in Twilight Princess nobody remembers who he is because he defeated Ganondorf before it should've happened (or something to that effect). In Wind Waker he's an honored and remembered hero of the sunken Hyrule, his origin story is even told above the sea.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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But it doesn't make sense. Read what majoras mask says about him

"In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family that tells of a boy... A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from the land that had made him a legend... Done with the battles he once waged across time, he embarked on a journey. A secret and personal journey... A journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend... A friend with whom he parted ways when he finally fulfilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends..."

The royal family tells a story of a boy who waged battles with Ganondorf across time. If the royal family knows why doesn't everyone else view link as a hero? Did they not believe the royal family?
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

What the Royal Family says isn't necessarily going to be what the people of Hyrule think.

The Royal Family, Zelda, Impa, they've become well aware of the sacrifices and hardships Link and the others have made. It's easy enough for them to admire his courage because they personally understand what he's gone through. In the same way that the royal family passes down their own legends or lullabies. There's this legend...coming from the Royal family but that's it.

The royal family keeps going, new members are born and the legends get diluted bit by bit. I believe the same thing happened in Wind Waker. Tales of Link's heroics were passed down for generations. However, once Ganondorf returned, the heroics of the Hero of Time simply disappeared into time. There's only so much admiration the citizens of Hyrule can give for something that as far as they'e concerned with, never happened.

Link here was just a good Samaritan who stopped Ganondorf before any real damage could be done. He might be considered a legendary hero to the Royal Family but to everyone else, he's no different than a random guy who helped to stop a robbery. In the end, the people of Twilight Princess era Hyrule aren't going to have the same level of admiration for Link as other eras are even if the Royal Family does.

Imagine Zelda trying to explain all this to the Child Era Hyrule.

Zelda: Listen up my fellow subjects. We have caught the dark thief Ganondorf! He was going to kill my father and take over but luckily, this young boy of the rest warned us early and have caught him. He shall be executed on the sages grounds with a very big sword. Let's hope nothing goes wrong there...also...ahem...time travel. The kid went thorough time. Seriously it was all s*** back then, zombies, goblins, you name it. You became a giant a*** pig didn't you Ganondorf?

Ganondorf: *Clearly as confused as the rest of the population*

Zelda: So yeah, Hero of Time motherf***ers. There were sages and monsters and f*** that well! Seriously somebody needs to fix that right now. So yeah, again...hero of time. Zelda out."

And that's why Zelda was locked in a tower in Twilight Princess because she lost her mind.
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+ Greenough
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I didn't read anyone else's posts, but as Hyrule Historia points out Twilight Princess is the story if Link fails to defeat Ganondorf. That's why he's not remembered as a hero. While Wind Waker is the story if Link succeeds in defeating Ganondorf. I don't think I said that opposite, I may need to re-check.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Nah. Hyrule historia says twilight princess is in the child timeline and wind waker is in the adult timeline. Neither are in the hero defeated timeline

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Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Mar 11 2017, 06:51 PM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

There's basically three timelines that differentiate during Ocarina of Time.

1.) Link defeats Ganondorf and seals him and leaves back to the past. Ganondorf later escapes and since Link is no longer around be he in the past or Termina, he's able to take over Hyrule again. The gods are forced to flood the world leading up to Wind Waker.

2.) Link stops Ganondorf early before he takes over the Sacred Realm. Ganondorf is sent to execution and ultimately throw into the Twilight Realm which then leads up to Twilight Princess and the later on if I'm correct, Four Swords Adventure.

3.) Ganondorf defeats Ocarina of Time Link in their battle but is trapped in the Sacred Realm, his influence ultimately turns it into the Dark World and leads up to a Link to the Past.
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So I've always understood the child and adult timelines but where did the hero defeated timeline come from? What caused it to exist? Is it just a what if scenario that's just there and the creators just wanted to it so they can expand the story and explain the other games?
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Emmeth
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Ssj3vegito96
Mar 12 2017, 03:57 PM
So I've always understood the child and adult timelines but where did the hero defeated timeline come from? What caused it to exist? Is it just a what if scenario that's just there and the creators just wanted to it so they can expand the story and explain the other games?
It's a possibility, the hero doesn't always win.
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But how can the timeline exist when the others where he does win exist? Do you see what I'm saying? When was link defeated? He wasn't. That's how ganon was defeated in the other two timelines. But then the game over timeline just comes out of nowhere
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Emmeth
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Ssj3vegito96
Mar 12 2017, 04:08 PM
But how can the timeline exist when the others where he does win exist? Do you see what I'm saying? When was link defeated? He wasn't. That's how ganon was defeated in the other two timelines. But then the game over timeline just comes out of nowhere
But it's not contradicting anything, they just create a different timeline. The player can purposely lose against Ganon and in their mind create a timeline, even though it's not in the canon, so to speak.

I don't see the issue with placing games in a timeline by creating different ones.
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I guess that makes sense. So it is basically a what if timeline?
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Emmeth
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I guess. I don't think what if's are applicable here though, because the games in each timeline exist.
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