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Present vs future androids
Topic Started: Mar 9 2017, 02:00 AM (384 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96
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Trunks said the present androids are stronger but why? Is he wrong? When future gohan fought them before they killed him 17 said they had been using less than half their power and trunks wasn't there to hear that. So maybe they're the same

Problem with that theory though is that trunks was just as strong if not stronger than future gohan when he fought the androids again before he went to the past.

Question I have is how much more power did they use against gohan and trunks? All we know is that they were using more than half. Are we just supposed to assume they went all out against him?
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Vertical
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There are 4 timelines/Universes, and thus 4 sets of Androids, implied to exist during the Cell Arc.
  • Present Androids
    These are the Androids of the main storyline. Absorbed by Cell. 18 gets released by Gohan, marries Krillin. 17 is resurrected by Shenron (becomes a ranger, contributes energy to the Genki-Dama).
  • Trunks' Androids
    These are the Androids that run rampant in Trunks' future, Killed most of the Z-Senshi. Destroyed by Trunks after his return.
  • Cell's Androids
    These are the Androids from the original timeline, where Cell comes from. They are never shown, and are defeated somehow (likely with a deactivation remote), causing Cell to jump in the time machine.
  • Alternate Present Androids
    Never seen but must exist in the 4th timeline/Universe (the Universe from which the Trunks that Cell kills travels to and returns from). No information available/possible, and thus removed from the following comparison.

During the Cell Arc, Trunks exclaims that the Present Androids are superior to his Androids.

Many take this at face value, declaring that Trunks remains correct until proven otherwise.

A problem (many seem unaware of) arises when Cell arrives.

Cell knows how powerful the Present Androids are. He knows when he's too weak to defeat them, and when he's strong enough to do so.

The Androids cannot be sensed, so any information he has on them must come from his own timeline. Thus, through Cell, we get:

Cell's Androids = Present Androids

If 2 of the 3 comparable sets of Androids are equal, and the 3rd set are renowned for not fighting at their full power, it is highly probable that all Androids are equal.

Due to Trunks' statement, there are two possibilities:
1. Trunks was being toyed with, resulting in: Trunks Androids = Cell's Androids = Present Androids
2. Trunks was right, his Androids were weaker… but, because of the highly probable conclusion reached above, they have somehow weakened over time.

If you choose to believe that Trunks was being toyed with, and that all versions of the Androids are equal, you contradict nothing… except possibly Author's intent (which is irrelevant).

If you choose to believe that Trunks was right, and that Present Androids > Trunks Androids, you are also required to believe that the Androids somehow weakened over time. This belief must then lead to questions like "Could the same thing happen to the Present Androids?"… to which nothing was implied.


tl;dr:
Future Androids = Present Androids.
Edited by Vertical, Mar 9 2017, 04:33 AM.
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Wow that's a really good point. I never thought of it that way
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Chapter: 348 (DBZ 154), P6.1
Context: after Piccolo says Super Saiyan Vegeta might beat No.17 and No.18
Trunks: “I-I was able to become a Super Saiyan too…B-but, I was absolutely no match for them…They’re stupendously strong…”

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”

Chapter: 356 (DBZ 162), P10.3
Context: more comparing the future androids to the present ones
Trunks: “Wh-why has history changed this much?...The an-androids’ power wasn’t on so much of a different level…And there were only 2 of them…”

Chapter: 357 (DBZ 163), P1.3-4
Gohan: “S-so they’re that strong?...”
Kuririn: “Yeah…You should consider them stronger than Trunks told us about…”

Chapter: 357 (DBZ 163), P4.3
Trunks: “…But somehow I ended up coming to a past slightly different than the one I know…The timing of Goku’s heart disease was different, there are 3 androids, and their strength is greater too…”

Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P5.1
Cell: “I’ll definitely get hold of No.17 and No.18! Even if you guys try to stop me from reaching my perfect form, it won’t do any good! Not if Piccolo is the only one able to put up a bit of a good fight against No.17 and No.18!”

Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P8.3
Cell: “I’ll keep absorbing human life energy unnoticed, and steadily increase my power. And once I’ve greatly exceeded the power of No.17 and No.18, I’ll force them to merge with me…!”

Chapter: 419 (DBZ 225), P11.3
Context: after Trunks kills No.18 in his timeline
No.17: “Impossible…! What did you do…?! Ho-how could No.18 be [killed] by the likes of you?…”

Chapter: 420 (DBZ 226), P2.3
Context: after Trunks tells Cell he’ll defeat him
Cell: “Trunks…All of your data has been scanned by the spy robot…With your power, you couldn’t possibly defeat No.17 or No.18, let alone me…”

Chapter: 420 (DBZ 226), P6.2
Context: after Trunks blows Cell out of the city
Cell: “…Looks like you really have improved…”


I think I got all of the relevant quotes pertaining to this. If there's more, I must've missed them.

Future 17 >>> Future Trunks (17YO) >= Future 17 (Trunks' expectation) > Future Gohan (1 arm) >= Future 17 (<50%) >>> Future Trunks (13YO)

Trunks had to have known Gohan's power when his mentor died, and after 3 years he figured he had a good shot at defeating the power that was above that (regardless if he knew the specific circumstances). He obviously wasn't nearly enough as he himself admits, but he's above Gohan by a certain amount to have the confidence he had. The androids must've been fighting Trunks at a higher level than they fought Gohan because of how scarred Trunks was and the warning he gave the Z Fighters.

...I'm dead.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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I don't think it could be made any more obvious that the future androids are weaker than the present ones. Trunks stated it himself and there's no reason to believe otherwise. There is no indication that they held back against him.

The androids from Cell's timeline are the future androids and there isn't any way for him to know that the present androids are stronger, so logically he would treat them as the same.

Present Androids>Future Androids>Cell(At Gingertown)
Greatly exceeding the future Androids to where he could overpower them simultaneously is also a level that surpasses the present Androids.

Finally, the Daizenshuu, which is an unbiased authority, states that the future androids are weaker. That alone ends any counterargument since official word>everything else.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Mar 12 2017, 01:08 AM.
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