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Toriyama's An Idiot
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Topic Started: Feb 26 2017, 11:29 PM (2,320 Views)
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twitchy
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Feb 27 2017, 03:11 AM
Post #31
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People say he's forgetful, he's even said himself he forgets stuff......you can't be forgetful if you're telling stories. That's like the bare minimum requirement. I don't understand what you want me to elaborate. You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
I've stated his mistakes are all over this board, I don't know what to say anymore. I could be here all day pointing out his flaws, the list is that long lol.
Edited by twitchy, Feb 27 2017, 03:14 AM.
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Tinny
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Feb 27 2017, 03:14 AM
Post #32
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- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:11 AM
People say he's forgetful, he's even said himself he's forgets stuff......you can't be forgetful if you're telling stories. That's like the bare minimum requirement. I don't understand what you want me to elaborate. You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
I've stated his mistakes are all over this board, I don't know what to say anymore. I could be here all day pointing out his flaws, the list is that long lol. How does this effect his writings? And actually no, I want examples here, and I want to know how this makes the quality of the story suffer. And once again where. I want real analysis, not these vague statements that may or may not be researched and may or may not be even true in the slightest.
Convenient for those who don't want to explain their positions, and like I said, you don't need to convince us of anything. I don't need to believe you on anything either however, if you want us to believe you, you need more than a screen shot of page 2 asking about the culture and governance of Gondor.
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twitchy
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Feb 27 2017, 03:18 AM
Post #33
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- Tinny
- Feb 27 2017, 03:14 AM
- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:11 AM
People say he's forgetful, he's even said himself he's forgets stuff......you can't be forgetful if you're telling stories. That's like the bare minimum requirement. I don't understand what you want me to elaborate. You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
I've stated his mistakes are all over this board, I don't know what to say anymore. I could be here all day pointing out his flaws, the list is that long lol.
How does this effect his writings? And actually no, I want examples here, and I want to know how this makes the quality of the story suffer. And once again where. I want real analysis, not these vague statements that may or may not be researched and may or may not be even true in the slightest. Convenient for those who don't want to explain their positions, and like I said, you don't need to convince us of anything. I don't need to believe you on anything either however, if you want us to believe you, you need more than a screen shot of page 2 asking about the culture and governance of Gondor. Well this is the best example I can give in Z.
Vegeta and Nappa blow up a planet outside their ships in space. They should've died right then and there. They don't go to Earth. Goku is then eventually killed by Frieza, who never got his wish on Namek and then goes to Earth to try again, because he's not strong enough. Frieza stays as the ruler of the universe. The end.
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Darker
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Feb 27 2017, 03:22 AM
Post #34
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The Lord of the Dark
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The guy had several plans to stop the series beforehand, but his bosses told him to because DB was incredibly popular. It's understandable if you forget stuff here and there with these annoying editors, especially when Toriyama was trying out a story and character archetypes he hadn't worked on that much in the past.
Also:
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You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
You're lacking a bit of proof on that. They were always inside the planet/asteroid's orbits and had oxygen to spare, especially since these characters are tough as hell, they'd survive the cold temperatures without problem, but that's not what we're discussing here.
Good question actually, what the hell are we discussing? That Toriyama's not that good of a writer? No one's arguing against that, but you're still being unnecessarily harsh and rude.
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Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?!
Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.
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Tinny
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Feb 27 2017, 03:27 AM
Post #35
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- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:18 AM
- Tinny
- Feb 27 2017, 03:14 AM
- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:11 AM
People say he's forgetful, he's even said himself he's forgets stuff......you can't be forgetful if you're telling stories. That's like the bare minimum requirement. I don't understand what you want me to elaborate. You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
I've stated his mistakes are all over this board, I don't know what to say anymore. I could be here all day pointing out his flaws, the list is that long lol.
How does this effect his writings? And actually no, I want examples here, and I want to know how this makes the quality of the story suffer. And once again where. I want real analysis, not these vague statements that may or may not be researched and may or may not be even true in the slightest. Convenient for those who don't want to explain their positions, and like I said, you don't need to convince us of anything. I don't need to believe you on anything either however, if you want us to believe you, you need more than a screen shot of page 2 asking about the culture and governance of Gondor.
Well this is the best example I can give in Z. Vegeta and Nappa blow up a planet outside their ships in space. They should've died right then and there. They don't go to Earth. Goku is then eventually killed by Frieza, who never got his wish on Namek and then goes to Earth to try again, because he's not strong enough. Frieza stays as the ruler of the universe. The end. Let me get this straight, because Vegeta and Nappa blew up a planet from space in anime filler, Toriyama is a bad writer?
And even then, this reasoning is weak, like "Looper is a bad movie because they don't just drop the guys in the ocean instead of having the Loopers 'close their loop,'" reasoning. Or "Why didn't they take to the skies to get to Mount Doom?"
Actually it's even worse to a degree. You're telling me that because Dragon Ball doesn't obey the laws of science (and for the most part it follows the rules it lays down implicitly and explicitly), it is bad? How does that even work?
I'm sorry, but I don't think you reasoning towards Dragon Ball's quality is convincing in any way.
Edited by Tinny, Feb 27 2017, 03:28 AM.
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twitchy
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Feb 27 2017, 03:29 AM
Post #36
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- Darker
- Feb 27 2017, 03:22 AM
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You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
You're lacking a bit of proof on that. They were always inside the planet/asteroid's orbits and had oxygen to spare, especially since these characters are tough as hell, they'd survive the cold temperatures without problem, but that's not what we're discussing here. Good question actually, what the hell are we discussing? That Toriyama's not that good of a writer? No one's arguing against that, but you're still being unnecessarily harsh and rude. We're discussing people rationalizing Toriyama's mistakes, which you have just done so with the oxygen debate.
I'm not being harsh, I'm giving him the criticism he deserves. I'm tired of the only reasonable answer when someone has a question on this board about the show is that "Toriyama made a mistake."
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twitchy
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Feb 27 2017, 03:32 AM
Post #37
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- Tinny
- Feb 27 2017, 03:27 AM
- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:18 AM
- Tinny
- Feb 27 2017, 03:14 AM
- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:11 AM
People say he's forgetful, he's even said himself he's forgets stuff......you can't be forgetful if you're telling stories. That's like the bare minimum requirement. I don't understand what you want me to elaborate. You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
I've stated his mistakes are all over this board, I don't know what to say anymore. I could be here all day pointing out his flaws, the list is that long lol.
How does this effect his writings? And actually no, I want examples here, and I want to know how this makes the quality of the story suffer. And once again where. I want real analysis, not these vague statements that may or may not be researched and may or may not be even true in the slightest. Convenient for those who don't want to explain their positions, and like I said, you don't need to convince us of anything. I don't need to believe you on anything either however, if you want us to believe you, you need more than a screen shot of page 2 asking about the culture and governance of Gondor.
Well this is the best example I can give in Z. Vegeta and Nappa blow up a planet outside their ships in space. They should've died right then and there. They don't go to Earth. Goku is then eventually killed by Frieza, who never got his wish on Namek and then goes to Earth to try again, because he's not strong enough. Frieza stays as the ruler of the universe. The end.
Let me get this straight, because Vegeta and Nappa blew up a planet from space in anime filler, Toriyama is a bad writer? And even then, this reasoning is weak, like "Looper is a bad movie because they don't just drop the guys in the ocean instead of having the Loopers 'close their loop,'" reasoning. Or "Why didn't they take to the skies to get to Mount Doom?" Actually it's even worse to a degree. You're telling me that because Dragon Ball doesn't obey the laws of science (and for the most part it follows the rules it lays down implicitly and explicitly), it is bad? How does that even work? I'm sorry, but I don't think you reasoning towards Dragon Ball's quality is convincing in any way. I don't care about the laws of science, if he said saiyans could breathe in space cool, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're making excuses again, he clearly made the whole plot point of Frieza having the upper hand on Goku was that he could breathe in space.
Then suddenly Vegeta is walking and breathing freely on ship landing strips and asteroids.
I don't see where I'm wrong here.
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+ Son-Goku
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Feb 27 2017, 03:33 AM
Post #38
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孫悟空
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You're calling a man an idiot of a series that you joined a forum about . . .
Edited by Son-Goku, Feb 27 2017, 03:34 AM.
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 RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power
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twitchy
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Feb 27 2017, 03:34 AM
Post #39
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- Slayer
- Feb 27 2017, 03:33 AM
You're calling a man an idiot of a series that you joined a forum about. lol, yeah. Says a lot about my own stupidity I guess.
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zombie2599
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Feb 27 2017, 03:34 AM
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- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:18 AM
- Tinny
- Feb 27 2017, 03:14 AM
- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:11 AM
People say he's forgetful, he's even said himself he's forgets stuff......you can't be forgetful if you're telling stories. That's like the bare minimum requirement. I don't understand what you want me to elaborate. You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
I've stated his mistakes are all over this board, I don't know what to say anymore. I could be here all day pointing out his flaws, the list is that long lol.
How does this effect his writings? And actually no, I want examples here, and I want to know how this makes the quality of the story suffer. And once again where. I want real analysis, not these vague statements that may or may not be researched and may or may not be even true in the slightest. Convenient for those who don't want to explain their positions, and like I said, you don't need to convince us of anything. I don't need to believe you on anything either however, if you want us to believe you, you need more than a screen shot of page 2 asking about the culture and governance of Gondor.
Well this is the best example I can give in Z. Vegeta and Nappa blow up a planet outside their ships in space. They should've died right then and there. They don't go to Earth. Goku is then eventually killed by Frieza, who never got his wish on Namek and then goes to Earth to try again, because he's not strong enough. Frieza stays as the ruler of the universe. The end. ok heres a problem with the information you have saying that toriyamas a bad writer
vegeta and nappa, that was anime filler,more of toeis fault
and frieza having finding the dragon balls wouldnt of happened if nappa and vegeta died as he heard of the dragon balls while they were on earth, so they die he dont know about dragonballs, you call toriyama a bad writer, yet you miss crucail information like this
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Dankness Lava
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Feb 27 2017, 03:35 AM
Post #41
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Dankness Forever
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- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:32 AM
- Tinny
- Feb 27 2017, 03:27 AM
- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:18 AM
- Tinny
- Feb 27 2017, 03:14 AM
- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:11 AM
People say he's forgetful, he's even said himself he's forgets stuff......you can't be forgetful if you're telling stories. That's like the bare minimum requirement. I don't understand what you want me to elaborate. You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
I've stated his mistakes are all over this board, I don't know what to say anymore. I could be here all day pointing out his flaws, the list is that long lol.
How does this effect his writings? And actually no, I want examples here, and I want to know how this makes the quality of the story suffer. And once again where. I want real analysis, not these vague statements that may or may not be researched and may or may not be even true in the slightest. Convenient for those who don't want to explain their positions, and like I said, you don't need to convince us of anything. I don't need to believe you on anything either however, if you want us to believe you, you need more than a screen shot of page 2 asking about the culture and governance of Gondor.
Well this is the best example I can give in Z. Vegeta and Nappa blow up a planet outside their ships in space. They should've died right then and there. They don't go to Earth. Goku is then eventually killed by Frieza, who never got his wish on Namek and then goes to Earth to try again, because he's not strong enough. Frieza stays as the ruler of the universe. The end.
Let me get this straight, because Vegeta and Nappa blew up a planet from space in anime filler, Toriyama is a bad writer? And even then, this reasoning is weak, like "Looper is a bad movie because they don't just drop the guys in the ocean instead of having the Loopers 'close their loop,'" reasoning. Or "Why didn't they take to the skies to get to Mount Doom?" Actually it's even worse to a degree. You're telling me that because Dragon Ball doesn't obey the laws of science (and for the most part it follows the rules it lays down implicitly and explicitly), it is bad? How does that even work? I'm sorry, but I don't think you reasoning towards Dragon Ball's quality is convincing in any way.
I don't care about the laws of science, if he said saiyans could breathe in space cool, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're making excuses again, he clearly made the whole plot point of Frieza having the upper hand on Goku was that he could breathe in space. Then suddenly Vegeta is walking and breathing freely on ship landing strips and asteroids. I don't see where I'm wrong here. He also said that was filler, whic means it was made by a different company.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Feb 27 2017, 03:37 AM
Post #42
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- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:18 AM
- Tinny
- Feb 27 2017, 03:14 AM
- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:11 AM
People say he's forgetful, he's even said himself he's forgets stuff......you can't be forgetful if you're telling stories. That's like the bare minimum requirement. I don't understand what you want me to elaborate. You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
I've stated his mistakes are all over this board, I don't know what to say anymore. I could be here all day pointing out his flaws, the list is that long lol.
How does this effect his writings? And actually no, I want examples here, and I want to know how this makes the quality of the story suffer. And once again where. I want real analysis, not these vague statements that may or may not be researched and may or may not be even true in the slightest. Convenient for those who don't want to explain their positions, and like I said, you don't need to convince us of anything. I don't need to believe you on anything either however, if you want us to believe you, you need more than a screen shot of page 2 asking about the culture and governance of Gondor.
Well this is the best example I can give in Z. Vegeta and Nappa blow up a planet outside their ships in space. They should've died right then and there. They don't go to Earth. Goku is then eventually killed by Frieza, who never got his wish on Namek and then goes to Earth to try again, because he's not strong enough. Frieza stays as the ruler of the universe. The end. That wasn't even in the manga. That was a filler scene in the original anime. You can't blame toriyama on that
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IT'S CHEESE

Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock
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Tinny
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Feb 27 2017, 03:37 AM
Post #43
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- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:29 AM
- Darker
- Feb 27 2017, 03:22 AM
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You want an elementary mistake.. how about the countless times our heroes have been exposed to space on an asteroid, ship base, outside a planet, and didn't die?
You're lacking a bit of proof on that. They were always inside the planet/asteroid's orbits and had oxygen to spare, especially since these characters are tough as hell, they'd survive the cold temperatures without problem, but that's not what we're discussing here. Good question actually, what the hell are we discussing? That Toriyama's not that good of a writer? No one's arguing against that, but you're still being unnecessarily harsh and rude.
We're discussing people rationalizing Toriyama's mistakes, which you have just done so with the oxygen debate. I'm not being harsh, I'm giving him the criticism he deserves. I'm tired of the only reasonable answer when someone has a question on this board about the show is that "Toriyama made a mistake." No you're not, you were discussing why Dragon Ball was Trash, and why Toriyama is an idiot who had a few ideas, nothing more. You said it yourself, it's in the title, it's obviously your position on the subject, and it's obviously wrong. You reasoning is stuff that would leave you declaring our greatest writer's of the time, including Shakespeare "idiots who had a few good ideas, nothing more."
What criticism he deserves? You used anime filler to explain how Toriyama was a bad writer. Toriyama wrote the manga, not the anime. You wanna criticize him, do so on the things he's actually done. Not made up fantasy like Toriyama writing every episode of the Z anime.
Here is your standard applied to the most legendary writer of all time.
In The Winter's Tale, Shakespeare wrote that the country of Bohemia (now part of the Czech Republic) had a coast-line, when there is none. There fore, Shakespeare is an idiot.
In Coriolanus, Shakespeare wrote that Delphi an island, when it is a city. It is in no way an island.
 Therefore, Coriolanus is trash.
In King John, whose rule lasted from 1199 - 1216, Shakespeare wrote of a cannon, which did not appear in battle in Europe until 1280. Therefore, Shakespeare is an idiot.
Are you seeing the issue here? You're not pointing at actual flaws in his works. You're not pointing at real flaws which hurt the story and are proof of his bad writing. You're nitpicking. And this is not a situation I expected myself to ever get into. I'm usually the one with the most negative opinion on Dragon Ball, but I'm not gonna use them not following real science as evidence of how bad the story or the writer is.
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I don't care about the laws of science, if he said saiyans could breathe in space cool, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're making excuses again, he clearly made the whole plot point of Frieza having the upper hand on Goku was that he could breathe in space.
Then suddenly Vegeta is walking and breathing freely on ship landing strips and asteroids.
I don't see where I'm wrong here. You clearly do, else this would not be so big a deal that it invalidates all the art, writing, flow, character design, symbolism, story building, progression, and more. Especially in material that's not even in the material Toriyama wrote. Give me a real example, give me real analysis. I want an essay on this I can read over lunch and have to think long and hard about. Not "How can the Terminator go back in time?" or "Why don't they immediately die from exposure to a vacuum that was never at any point shown to act like this?" Or do you think Nappa and Vegeta cannot hold their breaths for longer than two seconds? I don't think it's exactly a story destroying mistake to have Nappa and Vegeta hold their breath for three minutes, or that voices can travel in space. These are science errors, they are not writing errors.
Edited by Tinny, Feb 27 2017, 03:45 AM.
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twitchy
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Feb 27 2017, 03:37 AM
Post #44
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Okay, I'm wrong about the anime filler. Frieza having space breathing abilities wasn't filler though, did Vegeta not walk on asteroids in the manga? Am I wrong about that too?
Edited by twitchy, Feb 27 2017, 03:41 AM.
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zombie2599
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Feb 27 2017, 03:43 AM
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- twitchy
- Feb 27 2017, 03:37 AM
Okay, I'm wrong about the anime filler. Frieza having space breathing abilities wasn't filler though, did Vegeta not walk on asteroids in the manga? tinny never said anything about frieza breathing in space being filler, tinny said your using the vegeta nappa filler scene and using that to say toriyama is a bad writer
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