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| Toriyama's An Idiot | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 26 2017, 11:29 PM (2,317 Views) | |
| twitchy | Feb 26 2017, 11:29 PM Post #1 |
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A lot of discussions revolve around what he says but the guy can't follow his own story lines and rules. This goes for every arc whether it's in Dragon Ball, Z, GT, or Super. We have to remember that when debating. His words don't define what's already been written and acted out in the manga and anime. Sometimes there's no right answer. Power levels are useless, that's the biggest problem. The only consistent thing about them is the fact that if someone is stronger, they get a higher power level, but debating how much someone should get usually has no reliable basis. I love the show and TFS, but he's also not that creative. The main characters, saiyans, are basically humans with a tail that can turn into an ape. That helps because we can relate to it being human ourselves but it doesn't mean you have to give him so much credit. He also constantly rips off ideas from other media. |
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| breaker335 | Feb 26 2017, 11:35 PM Post #2 |
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Gonna have to address this one. There's a difference between blatantly ripping off someone else's idea and using it as inspiration. Toriyama has said before that he's a big sci-fi fan, that's why you can see various references to many sci-fi medium. Example: Frieza's Third Form resembling the Xenomorphs from the Alien series. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Feb 26 2017, 11:45 PM Post #3 |
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Well everyone else gets their ideas from toriyama so I guess they're all idiots too You serious dude? Why does it matter if some of his ideas aren't extremely complex? Simplicity done right is not a bad thing |
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| twitchy | Feb 26 2017, 11:47 PM Post #4 |
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I gave him the best compliment he could get by saying I love the show. I'm not just not gonna ride his dick about everything, he's still retarded about too many things lol. |
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| Tinny | Feb 26 2017, 11:54 PM Post #5 |
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While I wouldn't say he's the smartest writer, or the most skilled, or even that much better than the average writer, but he does have his own strengths, particularly in art design, such as Goku's own design and the flow of the panels. Power levels actually had a good idea behind them and served their narrative purpose, to show you cannot judge strength in such an objective way, people hold back, or they hide their power level, or they get something to enhance themselves, or they take off weighted clothing, or they full on use a technique that multiplies power. Also gonna disagree with the idea that the characters are uncreative, or rather, that they're uncreative because of the saiyans, this is more a hold over from the fact that Goku was based on Sun Wukong from Journey to the west, an outright monkey and began as such, eventually everything being more humanized until it was just the tail. Look closer at the designs and you'll see their own tails are mostly a hold over from that period, they're basically furry belts. And for ripping off from other media, I'm not sure what you mean? Freeza's third Form? ![]() ![]() similar perhaps, but they are different in many minor and major ways, including color, head features, and more importantly how they work in the plot. Edited by Tinny, Feb 27 2017, 12:12 AM.
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| twitchy | Feb 27 2017, 12:21 AM Post #6 |
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He keeps ripping off characters, the whole Future Arc and Android 16/Terminator is another one, and there are probably a lot more. All things considered he's a horrible writer, never mind average. Structure means nothing to him. Elementary mistakes left and right, up, down, everywhere. The drama is poor time and time again with hardly any real consequences. If Cell won his battle, they would've just reached out to the Nameks and Gohan would've had another go at him. Plus I've never actually laughed once the way I do with Emmy Award winning shows like Modern Family. Come on guys, he's a dumbass who had some good ideas, nothing more. |
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| + Saiyan Paladin | Feb 27 2017, 12:28 AM Post #7 |
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If he is such a horrible writer, why are we sitting here discussing his manga 20 years after it ended?
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| Tinny | Feb 27 2017, 12:30 AM Post #8 |
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You're gonna have to elaborate on the ripping off of characters? The Future Arc? You mean Zamasu? And 16 was a fair bit different in how the Terminators from one and two worked. 16 was a damn bit more peaceful than either Terminator for one, and he was the one teaching Gohan to fight, the robot teaching the child to fight, rather than the child teaching the robot to not fight. You need to give out a bit more than that. Also wouldn't Cell be able to... Well kill everyone? At the time, Gohan was the only one with any real chance at killing Cell. If Gohan wasn't strong enough to kill Cell (and depending on the interpretation he just plain wasn't strong enough period and needed help from Goku), then no one could stop him, no matter who you revived. There were stakes there. Granted, stakes are generally low in Dragon Ball, especially compared to most stories. Your complaints aren't given much detail to them, nor many examples to showcase your issues like "elementary mistakes everywhere," and I get it, Toriyama isn't the greatest writer, but you do need more specific complaints than that. @Saiyan Paladin Because it had a major effect on culture. You don't need to be a brilliant writer for that, you just need to be there at the right time. Toriyama was decent I think, but most of the reason it has such an effect was the moment of time it came out in, which was more or less the perfect time in both the east and the west. Edited by Tinny, Feb 27 2017, 12:35 AM.
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| Darker | Feb 27 2017, 12:37 AM Post #9 |
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The Lord of the Dark
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Is someone seriously calling Freeza's 3rd form a rip-off of the Xenomorph? I'm sorry, what? |
Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power. | |
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| SSJ | Feb 27 2017, 12:38 AM Post #10 |
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Because the writing is so bad it leaves so much up for debate. |
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| twitchy | Feb 27 2017, 12:40 AM Post #11 |
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He's ripped off a few characters, one is bad enough, more than one and you can safely assume he's been doing it and we just haven't been aware. And I was just talking about Cell blowing himself up to win. The Future Arc I just meant Androids in general and time travel - he created a whole arc from a movie pretty much (the Terminator). But whatever I don't feel I need to give detailed complaints here. Feel free to look at my post history, I've said it multiple times it's s***ty writing whenever someone posted a complaint. Look at your own post history, and all the threads on this forums and see how much can be attributed to Toriyama's retarded ways. I think you'll find the majority of the issues can be blamed on him. Edited by twitchy, Feb 27 2017, 12:44 AM.
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| Tinny | Feb 27 2017, 12:41 AM Post #12 |
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His world building was admittedly about as vague as it can get in the show itself.
He mentioned ripping off characters, not Freeza specifically, but he did compare 16 to the Terminator, which I also find a little odd. They're both robots that don't share much emotion I guess? how are those rip offs? Especially the future thing. It shares similarities but they're hardly the same. You don't need to justify yourself, but no one needs to believe you either. Giving those detailed explanations help us to understand your position. And I do think part of the problem is the fanbase to be honest as well as the anime, which had it's own share of mistakes. Edited by Tinny, Feb 27 2017, 12:45 AM.
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| Darker | Feb 27 2017, 12:56 AM Post #13 |
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Twitchy, you're being unnecessarily harsh by calling him an idiot or retarded, no writer, no matter how bad, deserves to be insulted like that. There is a clear difference between taking inspiration and ripping off others, and Toriyama's simply done what many others have, he's taken concepts from pop culture, twisted them a bit, and made them his own. There is no such thing as a blatant rip off in this franchise, at least not in the original series. If anything Toriyama's kinda ripped off himself sometimes. |
Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power. | |
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| Agent Dark | Feb 27 2017, 12:58 AM Post #14 |
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I don't agree about the Sayian part or him using other adaptations as inspirations. Everyone does to some extent. But I do agree about him being forgetful and leaving a lot of inconsistencies. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Feb 27 2017, 01:01 AM Post #15 |
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Toguro from yu yu hakusho looks more terminator than 16 if you ask me These aren't very valid complaints. Most authors are inspired by other authors. You know how many authors based their protagonist off of goku and their series was influenced by dbz and then failed because they couldn't execute their story and characters as well? Edit: well not failed but they couldn't pull it off as well as toriyama Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Feb 27 2017, 01:03 AM.
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