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After training in the ROAST, Gotenks "surpassed Vegeta and the others"?
Topic Started: Feb 23 2017, 08:14 PM (5,564 Views)
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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That's not actually evidence, that's just what you think should've happened. Why did Gohan fight Broly in base?
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Almost every argument I've seen for freiza being stronger than the base saiyans can easily be countered with the fact that they're always suppressed

Except the abo and cado stuff. How would tarble know how strong final form Frieza is?
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Feb 24 2017, 11:01 PM.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Except you would have to prove that Goku was suppressed when Beerus made his statement, which isn't implied anywhere. Even if Goku was suppressed, which he wasn't, there isn't any reason that Beerus would be worse at judging someones power than Ginyu.
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Slifer
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King Kai pushed Goku inside and told him to hide. Probably doesn't work too well if you aren't suppressed.

The Captain knew Goku trashed his boys but still suspected his own superiority. That leaves a fairly tight window to place Goku. All Beerus knew is that Goku beat Freeza with a transformation called Super Saiyan which he was shown. He had no reason to believe Goku's Base was capable of doing it. That's not even what he was there to see.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Beerus came to the conclusion that Goku's base couldn't beat Freeza because he couldn't. It's as simple as that.
The rest of what you're saying are some weird justifications that aren't implied anywhere.
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Slifer
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Quote:
 
Beerus came to the conclusion that Goku's base couldn't beat Freeza because he couldn't. It's as simple as that.


Cop-out answer, I'm afraid.

Ginyu came to the conclusion Goku was around 60,000. He was wrong.

Vegeta thought he could beat final form Freeza. He was wrong.

My personal favorite, Piccolo thought Base Gotenks could hang with Super Boo yet according to you, he was wrong.

Yet Beerus making a quick assumption is suddenly right with no doubt whatsoever just because he says so. Hilarious cherry-picking.

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The rest of what you're saying are some weird justifications that aren't implied anywhere.


lol what are you talking about. The rest of what I'm saying is:

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The Captain knew Goku trashed his boys but still suspected his own superiority.


Blatantly stated given Ginyu's estimated placement of Goku. Fact.

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That leaves a fairly tight window to place Goku


Between around 40,000 and 120,000. Fact.

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All Beerus knew is that Goku beat Freeza with a transformation called Super Saiyan which he was shown


Whis used his staff to show SSJ Goku manhandling Freeza. He explained it being a transformation that increases a Saiyan's power. Fact.

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He had no reason to believe Goku's Base was capable of doing it.


I already explained why Goku was suppressed. If you want to look past it because you have no legitimate answer, that's on you.

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That's not even what he was there to see.


He was there to see SSJ, learn something about SSJG and if the two are related in any way. Fact.






Edited by Slifer, Feb 24 2017, 11:53 PM.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Ginyu guessed Goku to be at 85,000.

Nothing implies that Goku was suppressed when Beerus compared him to Freeza, so it's conjecture. It doesn't matter why you think he should have been. If he snuffed out his own ki, then Beerus wouldn't have sensed him.

Stretching logic to the extreme the way you do is where claims like Base Gotenks post rosat>>>>SSJ3 Goku come from.
The rest of your post is irrelevant since it just a lot of vague justifications that you keep trying to link but in reality have nothing to do with each other and was never meant to be interpreted in such a fashion.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Feb 25 2017, 12:09 AM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

''Goku, hide in the house so Beerus doesn't see you.''
''Should I suppress my Ki too, King Kai?''
''Nah, that shouldn't be a problem.''

Heck, you don't even have to argue that he was suppressing. Honestly now, when has anyone walked around using their full power in Base, in a casual, non-combat scenario?
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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They're always suppressed even between attacks. It's a fact so we don't need it explicitly stated every time imo. We just know

But has it been settled what form Frieza tarble was talking about? How can he know how strong final form Frieza is?
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+ Saiyan Paladin
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So its something like Base Kids ~ No.18 ~ Abo and Cado << Freeza

Makes sense.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Goku did exactly as King Kai said. He hid from sight. Saying that Goku was suppressing is an assumption. No reason at all to stretch logic here. That's the reason why most of the ridiculous claims here are asserted.
Beerus sensed him, so nope, he wasn't snuffing out his ki.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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I still don't like the whole goten and trunks vs 18 argument tbh. She said she they were strong...that's it. Just doesn't mesh with me well. Vegeta being confident in taking on piccolo and 18 at the tournament without super saiyan is good enough proof for me
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* Yu Narukami
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 25 2017, 12:16 AM
Goku did exactly as King Kai said. He hid from sight. Saying that Goku was suppressing is an assumption. No reason at all to stretch logic here. That's the reason why most of the ridiculous claims here are asserted.
Beerus sensed him, so nope, he wasn't snuffing out his ki.
Okay, so where's the evidence that he was at Full Power in Base? We've seen him walk around with a lowered PL, so why should we believe that he was blasting all of his power out for Beerus to sense?
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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It's an assumption but it's a safe assumption since toriyama established very well that they are constantly suppressing their power to conserve energy. That's the point we're trying to make

Why isn't anybody acknowledging that tarble probably doesn't know how strong final form Frieza is though??
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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No evidence he was suppressing, so his power was there to be sensed. Fighters don't need to blast out their ki with an aura for people to know how strong they are.
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