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After training in the ROAST, Gotenks "surpassed Vegeta and the others"?
Topic Started: Feb 23 2017, 08:14 PM (5,565 Views)
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Vertical
Feb 24 2017, 09:53 PM
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 24 2017, 09:42 PM
@Vertical
No, the distinction your making between the anime and manga is pointless. Abo & Cado underestimate Goten & Trunks and get sent flying back. There was no big difference between the pairs.
There is no powerscale difference. The only difference is that they decide to fuse immediately in the manga instead fighting it out for a while.
Feel free to show me anything that indicates the Avocado pairing was anywhere near the kids in the manga.

SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 24 2017, 09:42 PM
Goku saying that Freeza level power in general being a good challenge for the kids doesn't change the fact that their base forms were matched by opponents whom were stated to be comparable to 1st form Freeza.

Goku's statement has nothing to do with anything regarding Abo & Cado's strength. What Goku is expecting is completely irrelevant. What Tarble has in mind is 530k opponents and that is what shows up, 530k opponents.

Freeza level power in general would be a good challenge for the kids, but the kid's base forms were comparable to opponents with powerlevels of 530k. This isn't hard to understand.
So... Goku's an idiot. Gotcha.

SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 24 2017, 09:42 PM
The writers portrayed all Base Saiyans as weaker than Freeza, so claiming that Goten and Trunks are at that level despite them being stated to be weaker than even the humans as SSJs doesn't make any sense.
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait... where exactly are Goten and Trunks stated to be weaker than the humans as SSJs?
@Vertical

No, as I said before, you're making a pointless distinction. The animation shows that Abo & Cado aren't far off from the base kids. That's all that matters.


Goku's not an idiot. You just don't know what you're talking about. You think that Goku saying that Freeza level power in general being a good challenge for the kids somehow invalidates Tarble's statement of Abo & Cado only being 530k.

Power on the level of Freeza's in general would be a good challenge for the kids. That's all his statement implies. Tarble compares Abo & Cado to 1st form Freeza and that power matches Goten and Trunks' base forms. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. This is completely ridiculous.


It was already stated that the people on the U7 team were the top 10 strongest on earth, making everyone on that team stronger than Goten & Trunks, even Roshi.
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SSJ
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Why do you always feel the need to say "you don't know what you're talking about", "why is this so hard for you to understand", etc. Do you wonder why people hate taking you seriously?
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Nagito Komaeda
Feb 24 2017, 09:57 PM
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 24 2017, 09:53 PM
@Nagito
Nobody said anything about Goku referring to 1st form Freeza. Tarble states that Abo & Cado are as strong as 1st form Freeza. That is the power that was shown to match the kids.


Goku states that Freeza level power in general would be a good match for the kids. That doesn't refer to their base forms alone and that doesn't imply that either of the kids are capable of beating full power Freeza, especially not when they're weaker than the humans.
That assumes that Goku knows that Tarble's talking about First Form Goku, doesn't it?

And I honestly have no clue why you keep bringing up the humans, it's a completely irrelevant point that brings nothing to the conversation.
What are you talking about?

Whether Goku knows what Tarble is talking about doesn't change that fact that Abo & Cado are 530k.


Nobody here advocating for the kids is making any sense.

-Tarble says that Abo & Cado are comparable to 1st form Freeza, putting their power levels around 530k.

-Goku says that Freeza level power would be a good challenge for the kids.

-Goten and Trunks struggle with Abo & Cado in their base forms.


Final form Freeza would be a good challenge for the kids. The kid's base forms are comparable to opponents with a power level of 530k. What's the problem?

What exactly are you people arguing against? The arguments I'm seeing are blatantly incoherent.
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+ Clearin
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Tarble never species any particular form of Freeza :errm:
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Time: 18:04
Context: Goku tries to convince Vegeta to let Goten fight.
Goku: Vegeta if there's two of them, there should be two of us.
Vegeta: Trunks will be enough.
Goku: True. Very true.
Note: Trunks > Abo and Cado


Time: 20:14
Context: Goku and Vegeta talks about how the boys beat down Abo and Cado.
Goku: Lookin' good, boys!
Vegeta: Only expected.
Note: Vegeta expected them to beat Freeza tier opponents at Base.

Hardly a struggle, really.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Trunks can go Super Saiyan, so obviously he would be enough. Nothing implies that Vegeta is referring purely to base power.

Vegeta expected them to outclass 1st form Freeza level power, not final form and you're stretching the statement.

The kids are shown visibly tired just like Abo & Cado after their scuffle in which they matched each other blow for blow. Afterwards Abo & Cado states that the kids are pretty good with Trunks returning the compliment.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Is that why he said 'only expected' when Trunks and Goten were fighting Abo and Cado and winning in Base?
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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The 2 statements have nothing to do with each other. Base Goten and Trunks can beat either Abo or Cado individually. Their one on one performances is what Vegeta said "only expected" to.

Trunks and Goten only did what they did because Abo & Cado underestimated them. The rest of the fight was dead even. Trunks was visibly exhausted from a single one on one scuffle.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Feb 24 2017, 10:33 PM.
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+ Saiyan Paladin
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Doesn't he specifically tell them not to go Super Saiyan?
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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No, he doesn't.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 24 2017, 10:32 PM
The 2 statements have nothing to do with each other. Base Goten and Trunks can beat either Abo or Cado individually. Their one on one performances is what Vegeta said "only expected" to.

Trunks and Goten only did what they did because Abo & Cado underestimated them. The rest of the fight was dead even. Trunks was visibly exhausted from a single one on one scuffle.
No, Trunks obviously met Vegeta's expectations. Do you really think Vegeta's going to big Trunks up and not end up commenting or insulting him if he didn't meet that first expectation?

So, you're telling me that both Goku and Vegeta got it wrong?
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Nobody got anything wrong.

"Trunks will be enough" isn't a statement that excludes Super Saiyan. He never said anything about Trunks beating them simultaneously in base. Trunks never fulfilled any expectation of beating Abo & Cado by himself since Goten joined him.

The only expectation that was fulfilled was the kids outclassing 530k's in base 1v1.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 24 2017, 10:39 PM
Nobody got anything wrong.

"Trunks will be enough" isn't a statement that excludes Super Saiyan. He never said anything about Trunks beating them simultaneously in base. Trunks never fulfilled any expectation of beating Abo & Cado by himself since Goten joined him.

The only expectation that was fulfilled was the kids outclassing 530k's in base 1v1.
Why didn't he tell Trunks to transform at the start, and better yet, why didn't Trunks himself transform if he was going up against both of them by himself?
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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I'm not seeing how that's a relevant question. He can transform anytime he wants.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 24 2017, 10:45 PM
I'm not seeing how that's a relevant question. He can transform anytime he wants.
Vegeta wants Trunks to get beat up before finishing the match? If he needs to go SSJ to comfortably beat the two, starting off in Base doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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