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After training in the ROAST, Gotenks "surpassed Vegeta and the others"?
Topic Started: Feb 23 2017, 08:14 PM (5,561 Views)
Dear Leader
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Gotenks's entry in Dainzenshuu 7 says the following:

"The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others."

What is your interpretation of this quote? Do you think it has any value as a canon power statement, or is it just hastily-written filler?

Here is my analysis...

The quote basically implies that Base Gotenks (Post) surpassed SSJ/SSJ2 Vegeta (Majin or otherwise).

Here's a table with some numbers, showing how much Goten and Trunks would have to increase their power levels in the ROAST for this to be possible...

Base Goku10Base Goten (Pre)4Base Goten (Post)25Base Goten (Post)55
Base Vegeta8.8Base Trunks (Pre)4Base Trunks (Post)25Base Trunks (Post)55
SSJ Vegeta440Base Gotenks (Pre)80Base Gotenks (Post) (Surpassed SSJ Vegeta)500Base Gotenks (Post) (Surpassed SSJ2 Vegeta (Majin))1100
SSJ2 Vegeta880SSJ Gotenks (Pre)4000
SSJ2 Vegeta (Majin)1000
SSJ3 Goku4000

The only suggestion of Goten and Trunks receiving a mega boost is considered a gag scene by a large amount of the DBZ fanbase.

So my opinion of this quote is that it just doesn't make sense.

Additionally, why is this quote so vague in the first place?!
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+ Pyrus
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It is vague, which gives each side of the argument ample validity. I take it to mean Base Gotenks, but if someone takes it to mean Super Saiyan Gotenks, so be it—although I vehemently disagree that the latter is supported in any way in the actual subject material...
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ekrolo2
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Pyrus
Feb 23 2017, 10:29 PM
It is vague, which gives each side of the argument ample validity. I take it to mean Base Gotenks, but if someone takes it to mean Super Saiyan Gotenks, so be it—although I vehemently disagree that the latter is supported in any way in the actual subject material...
Goku's king of scumbag mountain if he told Piccolo that Gotenks would beat Fat Boo with just a few days without the ROSAT only for Gotenks to need the ROSAT to get over f***ing Majin Vegeta.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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It says Gotenks in general, not Base Gotenks. Don't know how anyone can honestly conclude that the article refers to Base Gotenks when it just says Gotenks. That's literally not what it says, so no it isn't up for interpretation by any stretch of the imagination.
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Dear Leader
Feb 23 2017, 08:14 PM
Here's a table with some numbers, showing how much Goten and Trunks would have to increase their power levels in the ROAST for this to be possible...
...if you were restrained by the SEG multipliers.

Dear Leader
Feb 23 2017, 08:14 PM
The only suggestion of Goten and Trunks receiving a mega boost is considered a gag scene by a large amount of the DBZ fanbase.
The scene itself is a gag but dismissing the power statements isn't necessary. It [the scene] actually serves to imply that Goten and Trunks didn't gain a lot of strength (as shown by Piccolo's doubt in their fusing while in base form). Any strength they gained was minor, or at the very most, not anywhere near enough (at least according to Piccolo's estimation of their fusion result).

A guy who has seen the fusion result twice and on neither occasion been surprised by the result (as in, he expected someone at least SSJ3 Goku tier and his reactions to [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks suggest that was roughly what he got), suddenly has his expectations blown away by [Post-RoSaT] Base Gotenks. Clearly the strength change comes from the fusion itself, not Goten or Trunks... indicating a variable somewhere in any fusion formula that you may come up with.

The majority of people that do dismiss it do so because they are restrained by their own math or the SEG multipliers.


Personal opinion: I believe the guidebooks to be a waste of time. It makes me wonder what the community would look like, how opinions would be, if the guidebooks didn't exist. Their content/suggestions/facts/contradictions seem to spur a lot of arguments.
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+ Clearin
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It's such a bulls*** line that makes it clear the Daiz writers have no idea what they're talking about. Gotenks never surpassed Vegeta, before or after RoSaT.
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ryan1227
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What I wonder about the line is who the "others" are. Is it Gohan and Piccolo? I doubt it was referring to Goku, as the line implies Vegeta is the strongest out of the group Gotenks surpassed. Does that mean according to the Daiz, SSj Gotenks pre is weaker than Piccolo?

The fact that it is so vague is why I ignore this line. Piccolo's reactions towards Gotenks' power wouldn't make sense if he was weaker than Vegeta anyways.
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ahill1
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Vertical
Feb 23 2017, 11:38 PM
The majority of people that do dismiss it do so because they are restrained by their own math or the SEG multipliers.


But didn't you say on another thread that there's no reason to assume Gotenks or the fusions in general have a lower SSJ multiplier?


On topic: yeah, you can assume it is referring to base Gotenks or is just another (what a surprise!) contradiction made by the guidebook. They don't mean much when the manga clearly paints a different picture, nor do I care since the writers of the guidebook don't even bother of giving an explanation for the line.
Edited by ahill1, Feb 24 2017, 01:38 AM.
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I could argue Yamcha is stronger than Gotenks with this line and you couldn't tell me differently.
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ahill1
Feb 24 2017, 01:37 AM
Vertical
Feb 23 2017, 11:38 PM
The majority of people that do dismiss it do so because they are restrained by their own math or the SEG multipliers.
But didn't you say on another thread that there's no reason to assume Gotenks or the fusions in general have a lower SSJ multiplier?
Probably. That is what I believe and is implied after all.

SSJ works the same for fusion characters as it does for anyone else. If it didn't there would've been some kind of indication (there isn't).

...but just because it's the same... doesn't mean it's a fixed number...
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SSJ
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Feb 23 2017, 11:36 PM
It says Gotenks in general, not Base Gotenks. Don't know how anyone can honestly conclude that the article refers to Base Gotenks when it just says Gotenks. That's literally not what it says, so no it isn't up for interpretation by any stretch of the imagination.
Where does it say SSJ Gotenks?
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Says Gotenks, not Base Gotenks. SSJ Gotenks and Gotenks aren't 2 different people. This isn't hard to understand.
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SSJ
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Ah, so glad you agree the statement should be disregarded anyway due to making no literal sense.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Not seeing what's wrong with the statement. That's the official answer given, so it trumps fan speculation which is rarely ever correct anyway.
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SSJ
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So you're making an assumption by assuming it's referring to SSJ Gotenks? Should be expected of someone as intelligent as you.
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