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Are we too critical of Goku?
Topic Started: Feb 13 2017, 07:47 PM (3,542 Views)
G.G.
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I'll admit that Goku isn't really what would call a white knight, boy scout who cares about justice and truth like int he Funimation dub but Goku is noble and heroic even as it seems though Super seems to make him more childlike and stupid. Ever since I came into the fandom and started familiarizing myself with Japanese version, I keep hearing that childish and 'fight happy' is the real Goku although he seems somewhat nuanced and noble than even I give him credit for. I know we don't expect Goku to be a superhero or paladin but it seems as though that Super seems arouse a massive contempt for how his character is portrayed. Are we too critical of Goku?
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+ QueenTD
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The Step Mom

Toei took the comment that the anime made Goku too.heroic a little harsh. They tried to make him more like his manga counterpart (BoG and RoF did a good job of it) but in Super he seems to be a parody of "I just want a good fight" and his brain damage as a child kicked in.

Seriously a lot of Goku actions especially recently is something I expect TFS to do. And it seems like maybe the characters are calling him out for it OR imo it's Toei being self aware of the issue. I think the characters will praise Goku regardless. Only Vegeta will say something.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Goku has always had childlike qualities but Toei has really exaggerated them. That's the problem

Sometimes maybe we are a little too critical. He has his moments in the Super anime but... I can't really remember what they are lol
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Feb 13 2017, 08:09 PM.
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G.G.
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Goke does appear to be too childlike while he lost his noble traits.
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Darker
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The Lord of the Dark

DBS Goku deserves all the hate he gets and more for being such an annoying caricature of his original self. It's incredible how he's even more unbearable than Abridged Goku.
Edited by Darker, Feb 13 2017, 08:10 PM.
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Stone by day, warriors by night
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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I think his care for others is still there. He just doesn't seem to show it much. He tends to lose control over himself and not handle situations as responsibly too which is annoying

Most annoying thing is how stupid he is now though
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Feb 13 2017, 08:17 PM.
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Steve
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THE VOICES

Yeah I feel like he's got to the point where he cares more about fighting than people.

Maybe being dead for a long time warped his perception of life and death a bit?

Like he cares less about dying because being in Other World doesn't seem so bad.


I guess you could rationalize it that way but he's still an idiot and failing to be a heroic main character, yet he'll always be in the spotlight.
One of the many reasons I don't even bother watching Super.
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Darker
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The Lord of the Dark

Ssj3vegito96
Feb 13 2017, 08:15 PM
I think his care for others is still there. He just doesn't seem to show it much. He tends to lose control over himself and not handle situations as responsibly too which is annoying

Most annoying thing is how stupid he is now though
He's still literally nothing but a joke. It's a rare case of bastardization combined with the main character being turned into the franchise's comedy relief (and Goku's one of the worst ones I've seen). Even Mr Satan is more respectable in Super than any of the main characters.

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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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破壊王子

No. Goku's portrayal is detrimental to my enjoyment of the series. His actions are also responsible for the potential deaths of 11 universes, full of countless lives. He is absolutely reprehensible, and makes every villain before him look like a kitten.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Feb 13 2017, 08:54 PM.
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Super Saiyan
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Feb 13 2017, 08:51 PM
No. Goku's portrayal is detrimental to my enjoyment of the series. His actions are also responsible for the potential deaths of 11 universes, full of countless lives. He is absolutely reprehensible, and makes every villain before him look like a kitten.
Couldn't agree with this more. It's gotten to the point where I go into every pisode thinking "how is Goku going to piss me off today?"
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Venato
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The Saiyan Hunter

The last episode destroyed any redeeming quality that Goku once had as a character. You could even make a reasonable argument that he's morally worse than the villains. Think I'm exaggerating ? Just wait...

* He utterly lacked any reasonable reaction (guilt, fear, anger, etc.) besides an initial freak out, when he learned that he pretty much doomed eleven universes, possibly including his own. When even his own son and a freaking god of destruction called him out on his irresponsibility about it, you know how bad it is !

* Then, he requested again for Vegeta to come despite the fact that his wife is pregnant, which says a lot about his skills as a father and a husband...

* He then makes a fool out of himself before all the gods in the universe, twice. Once, to say hello to Champa, who barely talked to him in the last tournament, much less in an informal way. The second time, to say hello to Zen-Chan. You know, the guy who is threatening the damn multiverse ! He still consider Zeno as a friend after this ?! Sadly, this isn't even the worst part.

* Right after he did that, he proudly and shamelessly declare, once again before all the gods in the Universe that he is the one responsible for the tournament, which I remind you, will cause eleven universes to be destroyed, again possibly including his own, solely for the sake of fighting powerful opponents !

So no, we're not too harsh on Goku's characterization. If anything, we're not critical enough. It has become extremely difficult to view him as a positive character. Congratulations Toei Animation, you've managed to destroy Goku's character.
Edited by Venato, Feb 14 2017, 12:57 AM.
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Super Saiyan
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Venato
Feb 14 2017, 12:51 AM
The last episode destroyed any redeeming quality that Goku once had as a character. You could even make a reasonable argument that he's morally worse than the villains. Think I'm exaggerating ? Just wait...

* He utterly lacked any reasonable reaction (guilt, fear, anger, etc.) besides an initial freak out, when he learned that he pretty much doomed eleven universes, possibly including his own. When even his own son and a freaking god of destruction called him out on his irresponsibility about it, you know how bad it is !

* Then, he requested again for Vegeta to come despite the fact that his wife is pregnant, which says a lot about his skills as a father and a husband...

* He then makes a fool out of himself before all the gods in the universe, twice. Once, to say hello to Champa, who barely talked to him in the last tournament, much less in an informal way. The second time, to say hello to Zen-Chan. You know, the guy who is threatening the damn multiverse ! He still consider Zeno as a friend after this ?! Sadly, this isn't even the worst part.

* Right after he did that, he proudly and shamelessly declare, once again before all the gods in the Universe that he is the one responsible for the tournament, which I remind you, will cause eleven universes to be destroyed, again possibly including his own, solely for the sake of fighting powerful opponents !

So no, we're not too harsh on Goku's characterization. If anything, we're not critical enough. It has become extremely difficult to view him as a positive character. Congratulations Toei Animation, you've managed to destroy Goku's character.
It's not just Toei, though. Some of it must be coming from Toriyama himself, as the personality is pretty damn bad in the manga as well.
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OmegaSaiyan2
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Ņ?

i admit though Goku was like that the entire series, i didn't like how he acted in the recent episodes. just imo.
i'll try to not be that ''harsh'' here. let's say that:

-you could say that Goku has in mind using the Super Dragon Balls to rebuild all the 11 universes so nothing happened. he even said to Beerus if he could go to Zeno and ask to no destroy these. but i didn't like his lack of reaction though. Beerus even said to Goku he (Goku) will take responsibility for what he did. he will do.

-Zeno is only a Kid (mindset), and he is/was alone, nobody wanted to talk to him fearing the fact they could get destroyed. that for thousands of years. that would be depressing to anyone, no?
Goku is the first person to talk with him and be / bring a friend to him. wouldn't that be in Goku's favor?
Edited by OmegaSaiyan2, Feb 17 2017, 02:44 AM.
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Norc Groose
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No, people aren't being all that critical of him when they point out how his personality has been exaggerated at times in Super. However, if the comments about him are how he's changed as a character, then that is false, as fundamentally he's the still the same. With that said, he deserves all the flak he gets.
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Sam
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"Bwonsamdi, he be waiting to greet you."

No. Son Goku is not a redeemable character in Dragonball Super. He has endangered more lives than any of the villains he's defeated - all of the Gods of Destruction combined - Majin Boo, etc. Beerus was right when he said that Son's naive nature could lead to great disaster - if only he had actually destroyed the cretin. Instead, Goku's havoc continues to go on. Yeah, Gohan got angry with his father and so did everyone else that knew he was responsible for it.

But as of now, Goku is just irredeemable. Did he have his problems in Z? Sure. Take Cell for example - when Piccolo humanized the moment for him and put Gohan's trauma into words, Goku was visibly shaken by what Piccolo said. He was shocked and willing to throw his entire plan of using Gohan as a secret weapon out the window to go and save his son. If Cell hadn't let go of the crushing bearhug that Gohan was in at that moment, Piccolo and Goku (after taking the senzu) would have rushed Cell.

Goku could at least see reason - the pain he was causing his family. Now he's repetitively endangered EVERYONE'S lives and caused the destruction of an entire universe by proxy (Future Trunks' timeline).

I could go on and on. Super made Vegeta the ultimate Dragonball character and destroyed what was likable about Goku. He's still endearing. He'll never quite lose that quality. But the excuses for his behavior are so long gone.
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