Android 19 and 20 vs Mecha arc Trunks

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Android 19 and 20 vs Mecha arc Trunks
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 13 2017, 05:20 PM (1,317 Views)
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	Feb 13 2017, 05:20 PM Post #1
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	19 and 20 are post absorptions. There is no implied difference between Mecha arc and Android arc Trunks, but that's besides the point. The legend established by Trunks is that even as a Super Saiyan, he cannot defeat these Androids. Vegeta stated that 19(post) didn't live up to the legends based on his movements. The legend was that Trunks, a Super Saiyan cannot beat them. Yet somehow, people put Androids 19 and 20 above Trunks despite them being stated to not visually live up to Trunks' tale. Doesn't make any sense to me. Who wins? Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Feb 13 2017, 05:20 PM.
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* Yu Narukami	Feb 13 2017, 05:38 PM Post #2
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Trunks is coupled with Goku and Trunks when Kami's talking about how powerful the Super Saiyans are, so unless Goku and Vegeta barely got stronger than Post-Yardrat Goku, he got a lot stronger. Piccolo ponders whether they got too strong, and if the Androids were that weak, then he wouldn't have to wonder at all. Trunks loses horribly.



SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	Feb 13 2017, 05:50 PM Post #3
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	Nah, that doesn't make sense. Trunks doesn't need to be significantly stronger or at all. Nothing in the story implies it. Only fan conjecture. The three SSJ's are still far above everyone relative to each other, even if the strongest one far surpasses the weakest. The Androids were stated to not visually live up to the legend of being foes that Trunks, a Super Saiyan, cannot defeat. Twisting Piccolo's heat of the moment statement doesn't imply anything. Despite them not visually living up to the legend of being a foe that a Super Saiyan cannot defeat as said by Vegeta, the Z-fighters still think that those were the Androids that Trunks couldn't defeat because he said so. That and they have no reason to believe that any other Androids exist since #19 and #20 are the ones that showed up. There is only a limited number of conclusions to come to. These Androids don't live up to the legend as being a foe that a Super Saiyan can't beat, yet Trunks said he lost to them. Piccolo is only running the 2 only possible conclusions. Them being weak ended up being the correct one. His statement has no meaning greater than that. Anything more is twisting it for an agenda.
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* Yu Narukami	Feb 13 2017, 07:17 PM Post #4
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	SuperSaiyanGodGogeta Feb 13 2017, 05:50 PM Nah, that doesn't make sense. Trunks doesn't need to be significantly stronger or at all. Nothing in the story implies it. Only fan conjecture. The three SSJ's are still far above everyone relative to each other, even if the strongest one far surpasses the weakest. The Androids were stated to not visually live up to the legend of being foes that Trunks, a Super Saiyan, cannot defeat. Twisting Piccolo's heat of the moment statement doesn't imply anything. Despite them not visually living up to the legend of being a foe that a Super Saiyan cannot defeat as said by Vegeta, the Z-fighters still think that those were the Androids that Trunks couldn't defeat because he said so. That and they have no reason to believe that any other Androids exist since #19 and #20 are the ones that showed up. There is only a limited number of conclusions to come to. These Androids don't live up to the legend as being a foe that a Super Saiyan can't beat, yet Trunks said he lost to them. Piccolo is only running the 2 only possible conclusions. Them being weak ended up being the correct one. His statement has no meaning greater than that. Anything more is twisting it for an agenda. 'twisting it for an agenda'? Really? Why even put Piccolo's question in there if the answer is glaringly obvious? Notice that Piccolo doesn't call Trunks out for the Androids being incredibly weak. The Z-fighters were expecting Androids that were >> Post-Yardrat Goku, so even if they got Androids that were just > Post-Yardrat Goku, the statement would still stand and the Androids would be superior to Trunks. Out of curiosity, how strong do you think Sick SSJ Goku is? If he was weaker than his Post-Yardrat self or, heck, even SSJ Trunks, why did nobody comment on it?



SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	Feb 13 2017, 07:32 PM Post #5
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	Because these are the same Androids that supposedly defeated Trunks, yet they don't visually live up to the legend as something that a Super Saiyan can't beat as stated by Vegeta. It makes sense to take all possibilities into account given the contradictory nature of events. The fact that they beat Trunks doesn't change. In that case, the Z-fighters would end up getting too strong if #19 and #20 were the same power as the ones that beat Trunks, regardless of what they think of their own power. Piccolo's assertion that they were just weak was right. The Androids just weren't the one's of legend that a Super Saiyan couldn't beat. So yes, it makes sense that he would question if they got too strong or whether the Androids were weak. #19 and #20 aren't close to a Super Saiyan's power even after they absorbed energy. Why would Piccolo need to call Trunks out? He was already open to the possibility of the future changing due to Trunks' interference. The only part that was significant enough to call him out on is that #19 and #20 weren't the Androids that Trunks talked about. Goku's miserable condition was called out on. His power was stated to have not been as stupendous as it should have been. If the Androids after absorbing energy don't fit the legend as monsters that a Super Saiyan can't overcome as said by Vegeta, then they obviously don't fit the legend before absorbing any energy at all. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Feb 13 2017, 07:52 PM.
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+ Pyrus	Feb 13 2017, 07:32 PM Post #6
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Android #19 Pre-absorption: He's probably not all that tough. He withstood a frantic assault from Super Saiyan Goku, but at the same time, he's more durable than the average fighter, so I can allow some leeway here (after all, even Vegeta had to put in noticeable effort to rip the droid's hands off). The gap between him and Goku had to have been quite large at first due to Goku presumably being above his post-Yardrat self, who was somewhat higher than Initial Future Trunks, and post-absorption #19 was comparable to the latter. That said, if this #19 can absorb a decent amount of ki, he could quickly overwhelm Trunks, otherwise he'd be in the trash pit again. Post-absorption: Vegeta's statement about him not being so bad implied—to me, at least—that #19 after absorbing a ton of Goku's ki wasn't so strong that he could annihilate Initial Future Trunks with little effort. He's still above that Trunks, however, or Vegeta probably would've said something with more concise impact on that matter. I just put him on post-Yardrat Goku's level, maybe a bit higher, which is enough to beat Trunks after a moderately difficult battle, but not enough to whoop his a*. Android #20 Pre-absorption: Eh, he's an odd case. He was fast enough to surprise Vegeta, despite the latter just stomping post-absorption #19, yet he was absolutely nothing to an all-out Piccolo even after absorbing a good amount of ki from him and Super Saiyan Vegeta, who was still one tier below the Super Saiyans. He could probably still beat Initial Trunks, though. Post-absorption: He'd smash all over Trunks. If he wasn't at least able to soundly beat Trunks, Piccolo would've been able to tell a lot sooner. Edited by Pyrus**, Feb 13 2017, 08:23 PM.
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+ Saiyan Paladin	Feb 13 2017, 08:12 PM Post #7
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	19 wins with low difficulty and 20 destroys him.



OmegaSaiyan2	Feb 13 2017, 09:28 PM Post #8
¿? Posts: 3,381 Group: Member Member #10,465 Joined: November 9, 2013 Gender Male Country Chile Favourite Anime Dragon Ball/Z and Sailor Moon. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball/Z.	19 might have some difficulty but 20 definitely stomps Trunks.
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ahill1	Feb 13 2017, 10:59 PM Post #9
Posts: 759 Group: Member Member #12,438 Joined: June 29, 2015 Gender Not Specified Country Egypt Favourite Anime HxH What Browser do you use? the best Favourite Manga HxH	#19 (post absorptions) is right around Mecha saga Trunks, possibly slightly higher, as Vegeta didn't think he was up to the rumors, but still didn't completely dismiss him. I'd give #19 the win due to Trunks being limited to a hand to hand combat and #19's resilience coupled with a possible slight power advantage. #20 post, however, was put into doubt by Piccolo as being in fact as terrible as Trunks told them or not. For Piccolo to at least consider the possibility of them growing up too strong and #20's power being intact would lead me to believe he could defeat Mecha saga Trunks without too much problems, but maybe not in a terrible stomp fashion. Mecha saga Trunks 200,000,000 Android #19 (post) 210,000,000 Android #20 (post) 230,000,000 Piccolo (androids saga) 270,000,000 Something like this, I guess.



SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	Feb 13 2017, 11:47 PM Post #10
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	No, Vegeta dismissed the rumors about their strength. This "partially dismissed" nonsense isn't implied anywhere. There aren't as terrible as the rumors. The rumors are that Trunks, a Super Saiyan, can't beat them. They aren't as terrible as that, therefore they aren't stronger than a Super Saiyan, not even close.
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* Yu Narukami	Feb 14 2017, 01:19 AM Post #11
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	The rumours are that they're vastly superior to Post-Yardrat Goku, that's why Goku had to train for three years to stand a chance against them.



+ Pyrus	Feb 14 2017, 01:24 AM Post #12
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Goku's post-Yardrat strength was only able to give Trunks "hope" that things could be different, so the androids must've been some absolute demons.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	Feb 14 2017, 01:27 AM Post #13
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	The tale stated is that they are too strong for Super Saiyan Trunks to overcome as he said himself. Therefore if they don't live up to the rumors based on their movements, then they can't beat Trunks. That isn't hard to understand. Them being stronger than Yardrat Goku is inconsequential. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Feb 14 2017, 01:27 AM.
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zombie2599	Feb 14 2017, 01:43 AM Post #14
Posts: 935 Group: Member Member #13,534 Joined: September 26, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime dbz What Browser do you use? internet explorer Favourite Manga dbz	SuperSaiyanGodGogeta Feb 14 2017, 01:27 AM The tale stated is that they are too strong for Super Saiyan Trunks to overcome as he said himself. Therefore if they don't live up to the rumors based on their movements, then they can't beat Trunks. That isn't hard to understand. Them being stronger than Yardrat Goku is inconsequential. actually it is as yardrat ssj goku is the best benchmark to use for this , i agree with pyrus it only gave trunks hope things could be different. plus you have to consider mecha friezas strength, gero probably recorded it and when he was building 19 and the 20 android body for himself, he probably considered making them way above that level, as look at 17 and 18 they were more powerful than a three year long training vegeta as an ssj when gero didnt know what an ssj was, so he probably considered the same for the absorbtion models as well, plus theyd have to be post yardrat ssj goku as then there would be no way 19 would survive against goku even if he was sick



SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	Feb 14 2017, 01:52 AM Post #15
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	I don't even know what you're getting at. The tale is that Super Saiyan Trunks cannot overcome these 2 Androids. What would adding Goku's name to the list do? "The tale is that Super Saiyan Trunks and Goku cannot overcome these 2 Androids." Ok, so what? It has the same meaning. These Androids don't live up the rumors, so these Androids can't beat either Saiyan. There isn't any evidence for where Sick SSJ Goku's level is, so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that #19 is as strong as Yardrat Goku. Even if sick Goku was stronger than Yardrat Goku, it wouldn't mean anything since #19 was confirmed to not fit the rumors for someone that Trunks can't defeat. 19(post) was stated to not fit the bill for a being that a Super Saiyan can't defeat, so he isn't on par with any SSJ let alone Yardrat Goku.
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