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Goku - Is He Really Naive or Manipulative ?
Topic Started: Feb 12 2017, 06:16 AM (599 Views)
Kblo247
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Also, can we let go the whole goku doesn't know any better thing?

He knows if he tells Vegeta the stakes, Vegeta would try to murder him right there for what he put them into.

He knows if he doesn't guilt Gohan with the stakes he won't fight as he doesn't view it as fun or competition.

He knows if he doesn't phrase it as a fight or a game to Buu, Buu won't fight to kill as it goes against what he promised Satan which is why he says go play with him Buu.

He knows very well how to play with words, manipulate, and hide what he needs to ao he can get what he want out the others.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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I don't understand. Does this have to do with the new episode? I haven't seen it so maybe that's why
IT'S CHEESE
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Kblo247
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Yeah it is a thought after watching it .. He seemed to be a mini Bulma
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Norc Groose
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He can be both tbh. Though I'm more concerned by the fact that not just Goku, but Gohan and Supreme Kai only seemed to care about their own universe.
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Kblo247
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It fits their personality.

Gohan only cared about himself since Goku died at Cell. He did not train to protect everyone. He threw Goten and Trunks back into battle which even Vegeta tried to keep them out of. He didn't even ask once why Trunks came back from the future and does not offer to help in any way, instead he shifted the burden to what are Goku, Vegeta, and Bulma going to do. He even initially refused to spar instead running down a list of people Goku should fight

And Shin cared about his fellow supreme kais dying. He cared about Buu being hunted and stopped, going as far as to call Goku/Vegeta selfish multiple times. He never admits fault. He never admits his own grudge. He never admits his own faults. HE didn't care about the mortals, their squabbles, etc. He did not care about reviving them, etc. He cared about his own vendetta. Hell he doesn't care enough to give King Kai his life back either as he used a wish on his own fusion.

The idea that all these people care about those under them is silly. Piccolo even tells Buu kill everyone. The Z fighters besides Bulma are fine with hoping Gotenks and Piccolo die in the chamber to be wished back. The Z fighters are fine with hiding while the world dies under them including Dende. Tien is fine hiding out with Chaiotzu and even letting his team die up until Dende and the dragonballs are at risk. Hell Vegeta as f'd up as it sounds is the only one who even has the idea of make the damn humans culpable and have them at least fight back vs Buu and be aware that they don't live in a fantasy where we can forget the bad stuff, but then Goku and Satan erase that lesson lol

These guys aren't heroes or villains in a traditional sense
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Norc Groose
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Kblo247
Feb 12 2017, 07:34 AM
It fits their personality.

Gohan only cared about himself since Goku died at Cell. He did not train to protect everyone. He threw Goten and Trunks back into battle which even Vegeta tried to keep them out of. He didn't even ask once why Trunks came back from the future and does not offer to help in any way, instead he shifted the burden to what are Goku, Vegeta, and Bulma going to do. He even initially refused to spar instead running down a list of people Goku should fight

And Shin cared about his fellow supreme kais dying. He cared about Buu being hunted and stopped, going as far as to call Goku/Vegeta selfish multiple times. He never admits fault. He never admits his own grudge. He never admits his own faults. HE didn't care about the mortals, their squabbles, etc. He did not care about reviving them, etc. He cared about his own vendetta. Hell he doesn't care enough to give King Kai his life back either as he used a wish on his own fusion.

The idea that all these people care about those under them is silly. Piccolo even tells Buu kill everyone. The Z fighters besides Bulma are fine with hoping Gotenks and Piccolo die in the chamber to be wished back. The Z fighters are fine with hiding while the world dies under them including Dende. Tien is fine hiding out with Chaiotzu and even letting his team die up until Dende and the dragonballs are at risk. Hell Vegeta as f'd up as it sounds is the only one who even has the idea of make the damn humans culpable and have them at least fight back vs Buu and be aware that they don't live in a fantasy where we can forget the bad stuff, but then Goku and Satan erase that lesson lol

These guys aren't heroes or villains in a traditional sense
Thinking about it, I like and hate that. They're not your white knight heroes, but not clear cut villains. At the same time, it sometimes makes you want to punch them in the face.
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King Kai Fan
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So Goku is fulfilling the role that Jar Jar Binks was supposed to fill as a manipulative Sith lord disguised as a buffoon? Sounds about right. He's turning into a first rate Saiyan that won't hesitate to sacrifice anything just for the thrill of a fight. Would be great if Goku started wearing traditional Saiyan armor like Bardock's and stopped pretending. Would also be cool if he revived Raditz.
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superperfectnerd
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Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgement simply need not be believed–in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical–and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self-satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. (Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters & Papers from Prison, 43)
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